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  1. #11
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    Attached you find 2 photos made of the beautiful book by Wolfgang Kern, "German Illuminating-and Signalpistols". This signaling device was carried by Tornado jet crews, so I expected also in GB. The 3rd picture is of another german civilian pyro launching device. It uses 6mm flobert blanks and 15mm Pyroshot. I used it myself on sylvester to test some new effects which just were introduced on the german market. This device can fire 8 shots vertically upwards. Thank you for your explanations, but nobody has answered my original question about the pull-firing-device.
    greetings,
    Bellifortis.

  2. #12
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    Thank you for the extra information.
    I seem to have forgotten to respond to your original question too!
    Your pull firing device is very similar to some devices that I have and use for firing primer caps that then initiate shocktube for demolition and EOD work.
    I have metal and plastic versions. Both came from sources in the USA and have been accepted into GB without the need for a Firearms Certificate.
    I will provide some photographs hopefully within 24 hours for your comparison.
    Kind regards.
    any live or dug ordnance. small arms ammunition etc in my posts have been dealt with accordingly

  3. #13
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    Hallo exat808,
    thanks for your answer. Every country seems to have its own different regulations. To me as a german, the british definition of a male spigot type launcher being legal for everybody and the female one being reserved for the military and needing a firearms licence seems absolutely strange and unreasonable. But, every country has the right to do as it pleases and nobody has any right to tell another country what to do. Since more than 25 years european countries have worked on a common explosive and firearms legislation. The explosive part, which includes Pyrotechnics, is well on the way, even I am not happy with the result. But, as you see, the arms legislation is a very long shot from anything common and every country does as it sees fit. And shure, this legislation has historical reasoning and developments were different in every country. I don't think that I will see any common legislation in my lifetime. But, it would be very nice. Everybody would know what he can and can not do and own, do buisiness and travel with them everywhere he likes to. I'm just dreaming.
    with kind regards,
    Bellifortis.

  4. #14
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    I have more questions. Are the flarecartridges for the 16 (16,5)mm male-spigot pens (the yellow one in the picture) still available on the UK marketplace ? Production in Germany of these items stopped in 1991. And, is the trade in this civilian pyrosignal cartridges completely free in the UK ?
    Regards,
    Bellifortis.
    Quote Originally Posted by exat808 View Post
    Hi
    The attached document explains why a device that can be screwed onto a flare or other article containing a percussion cap might be treated as a Firearm in GB.

  5. #15
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    Hi,
    Just copied these links from British marine supplies websites.

    https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/item/44...tress-signals-

    http://www.gaelforcemarine.co.uk/en/...it/m-2508.aspx

    So these civilian versions are available in GB without a Firearms Certificate.

    Kind regards,
    any live or dug ordnance. small arms ammunition etc in my posts have been dealt with accordingly

  6. #16
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    Hi again Bellifortis.
    I agree with your observations regarding domestic firearms legislation around the EU.
    I have been involved with UK/GB explosives legislation for many years and have watched it evolve alongside EU Directives in an attempt to harmonise matters.
    Firearms as you have observed have taken different courses for many reasons that are not in the remit of this forum!
    Perhaps PM me if you wish to discuss.
    Kind regards
    any live or dug ordnance. small arms ammunition etc in my posts have been dealt with accordingly

  7. #17
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    Hallo exat808,
    thank you very much for this very enlightening discussion. Sorry to all the other members who may find it boring. These small flares are a "Tour par force" of german postwar pyrotechnic buisiness history and a prime example on how buisiness can outrun politics, by creating facts. The 2 links you presented for the Pains-Wessex Miniflares show the originally called M-150 S model that had been sold by COMET Bremerhaven for many years, exclusively for Export. I tried, but could not purchase it in Germany 10 years ago. Attached is a foto of the M9/15mm Miniflares that were produced and sold in Germany and mainland europe since more than 50 years for civilian use. These contain a 6mm Flobert rimfire-blank and were sold here for civilian use. Quite a few years ago Chemring bought Pains-Wessex and the Marine-signals part of COMET, while the Infrared decoy flare, covering smoke and other mil applications were bought by Rheinmetall. The civilian Fireworks-buisiness was taken over by the chinese. At this time the traditional M9/15mm german flares went suddenly on sellout for 0,28 GBP instead of the normal price of 1,70 GBP, and the formerly prohibited export model M-150 S appeared as a sole model on the market. Meanwhile Chemring has sold Pains-Wessex and COMET to Drew Marine Signal & Safety UK Ltd. They appear to be the manufacturer of the Miniflare kits of Pains-Wessex. To be able to sell these items in the UK and the rest of the world, the since more than 50 years in germany legal model was discontinued and the formerly illegal export model was introduced in germany. To completely concur with the purely british legal definition ( which is the opposite of the still holding german one) Drew Marine in 2016 even changed the 6mm Flobert rimfire to a centerfire. So, a private company manages to make all german consumers concur with british legal definitions which really are opposite to german ones. Politics would never have managed to force such a thing on all german consumers. It also shows how intertwined international buisiness has become. The Foto shows in the backrow Dummy russian flares, I picked up at a trade fare around 25 years ago. The middle row shows different older aluminum cased pyro cartridges and in the front the last model plastic cased ones. The other foto shows the Dummy blister pack of russian manufacture. The 2 data sheets of Drew Marine I just downloaded from the internet. They now don't even sell spare flares any more, but only the very expensive kits including the pen.
    With kind regards,
    Bellifortis.
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    Last edited by Bellifortis; 7th January 2017 at 12:58 AM.

 

 
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