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French 47mm Antitank Gun Armor Piercing Projectiles with Missing Ballistic Caps
- Thread starter M8owner
- Start date
Extending this thread a little more, I recently picked up the middle projectile shown below, which I thought looked like a variant of the standard 47mm Obus de perforant Mle1935 as the Ogive wasnt quite the same smooth outline as my other 47mm APs. When placed side by side with the other 47mm Mle35s, I also noticed the drive band was considerably wider.
Since this drive band is far more remeniscent of the Obus de Perforant avec Fausse-Ogive,Taceur Mle1938, and because the Ogive isnt the same shape...does this projectile somehow lie between the 1935 and the 1938 design?...and is there a ballistic cap missing?
Rich
Since this drive band is far more remeniscent of the Obus de Perforant avec Fausse-Ogive,Taceur Mle1938, and because the Ogive isnt the same shape...does this projectile somehow lie between the 1935 and the 1938 design?...and is there a ballistic cap missing?
Rich
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Hello Rich. I am going with your projectile is a Mle 1936 without its piercing or ballistic caps.
Now, I hate to question the master; however, I have seen no evidence that there ever was a French made tracer AP round, Mle 1938, for the antitank gun. The German documents supplied by greif only show the Mle 1936. The German documents do show a Mle 1936 AP with tracer, but it is German made with a German tracer element No. 1. Why do you think there was a French 47mm AP Mle 1938 for the antitank gun? I believe you have a 47mm AP round with the magnesium nose painted yellow; does this projectile have a tracer element? If it has a tracer element, is it a German No. 1 element?
Why is there no French military documentation out there for many WWII ammo items - 47mm AT gun, 47mm tank, 37mm tank, 75mm tank, 25mm AT gun, 81mm mortar rounds? I have a book titled "Notes on French Ordnance" written by a US Army officer that covers items up to 1936. It has excellent copies of French documentation for all ammo up to the end of WWI, but it has nothing for the WWII items. I know the French had manuals and did documentation. Where did it all go?
Now, I hate to question the master; however, I have seen no evidence that there ever was a French made tracer AP round, Mle 1938, for the antitank gun. The German documents supplied by greif only show the Mle 1936. The German documents do show a Mle 1936 AP with tracer, but it is German made with a German tracer element No. 1. Why do you think there was a French 47mm AP Mle 1938 for the antitank gun? I believe you have a 47mm AP round with the magnesium nose painted yellow; does this projectile have a tracer element? If it has a tracer element, is it a German No. 1 element?
Why is there no French military documentation out there for many WWII ammo items - 47mm AT gun, 47mm tank, 37mm tank, 75mm tank, 25mm AT gun, 81mm mortar rounds? I have a book titled "Notes on French Ordnance" written by a US Army officer that covers items up to 1936. It has excellent copies of French documentation for all ammo up to the end of WWI, but it has nothing for the WWII items. I know the French had manuals and did documentation. Where did it all go?
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I don't think it's a mle 1936 without cap.
Herewith diagrams of mle35 and mle36. Picture of mle 35 without penetration cap.
Never seen French 47MM AP M35 or M36 with tracer.
At work I saw German made 47mm with tracer (never found documentation) :
.AP model 1936 with tracer and two FES bands (I called it 4.7cm Pzgr.178 (f) l'spur Fes)
.AP model 1935 with tracer and two FES bands (I called it 4.7cm Pzgr.176 (f) l'spur Fes)
German made m35 (without cap) and tracer :
Herewith diagrams of mle35 and mle36. Picture of mle 35 without penetration cap.
Never seen French 47MM AP M35 or M36 with tracer.
At work I saw German made 47mm with tracer (never found documentation) :
.AP model 1936 with tracer and two FES bands (I called it 4.7cm Pzgr.178 (f) l'spur Fes)
.AP model 1935 with tracer and two FES bands (I called it 4.7cm Pzgr.176 (f) l'spur Fes)
German made m35 (without cap) and tracer :
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thehairbarebunch
Well-Known Member
I have RIS manufactured 47mm antitank gun Mle 1937 and tank gun Mle 1935 AP projectiles, and they all have RIS 38, 39 or 40 for the date code on the bottom. Your projectile has "14" in that position, and it is stamped on the side also. l am not certain what to make of that date code.
thehairbarebunch
Well-Known Member
You and me both ????
With such a tracer, I assume the shell was made in France during German occupation
French copper bands :
German FES band :
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thehairbarebunch
Well-Known Member
It's got copper driving bands and a threaded tracer cavity....
I am reviving this thread since I thought it was appropriate to talk about the 1934 anti-tank (?) gun, which uses a 47 x 139R case as pictured below. This is a rather rare case, and MINENAZ16 mentionned that it could receive the HE shell m32 , but which AP shell if any was meant to be loaded with this case? Was it an anti-tank, a fortress or a tank gun? Was it ever used?
