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Mills Grenade Split Pin Rings. One for those with quite a large collection

Nismosonic

Well-Known Member
Just wondering,,,? One for the Mills collectors here...
What proportion of No5 Mills have small rings to those with large? Was this an early thing only found on 1915 mills with the earliest type lever? Did the Smaller rings carry over onto latter no 5 and no23 grenades? I've noted that majority of centre cast Mills seem to have the smaller ring, though not all. Maybe it was just what was available at the time? Also noticed some rings on 36M have a solid ring rather than the "key ring" type.
 
The Mills No 5 started off with the small ring but actual usage and feedback from the army led to the more standard larger ring being used. I have seen lots of grenades ploughed up on the Somme battlefield and can confirm that small rings were still in use in the spring of 1916, I've also seen 1915 dated grenades with large rings. I don't think there are any official dates and manufacturers used up stocks rather than waste them.

One thing people don't realise about the Mills was that the Army, Trench Warfare and the Ministry of Munitions were not 100% prescriptive about the design of base plugs, or the materials filler plugs were made of (aluminium, brass, steel) etc. Official drawings gave advice but people certainly did their own thing with the bits that screwed in.

Solid rings appeared towards the end of WW2 and became standard in the latter days of the Mills 36.

The overall caveat with the Mills is that unless you have an example to look at that has been in a time capsule (like buried in a battlefield) you never know if all the parts are original.

John
 
John . Actually the solid rings appeared during WW1 & were often used on the early WW2 examples depending on the maker . We used to do a lot of work in inaccessible British grenade ranges about 25 years ago & used to find huge quantities of rusty rings at least half of which were solid . We also found hundreds of base plugs etc , none of which were dated after 1941 so we can assume those ranges weren't used much after that date . As you so rightly say , you can never be sure all the parts on any Mills started off on that particular example .
 
Thanks Mike. I'd be pushed to identify an original WW1 solid ring, but won't dispute what you say. Physical evidence is in my opinion better than a paper specification.

John
 
Thanks guys, who chose the other manufacturers to build Mills grenades ? As per early Mills plugs the bomb was protected under Mills Patents, so I'd assume war office.
Were any grenades ever made at Royal Ordnance Factories?
I know Mills made more money making aluminium golf putters than grenades in his Sunderland factory, government paying him around 27k it really is a very interesting history.
 
Thanks guys, who chose the other manufacturers to build Mills grenades ? As per early Mills plugs the bomb was protected under Mills Patents, so I'd assume war office.
Were any grenades ever made at Royal Ordnance Factories?

Mills started out as the sole manufacturer with two contracts, one of 50,000 (27th April 1915) and the next of 100,000 (13th May 1915). It was clear this was never going to be enough and contracts were placed with 2 other makers from the 13th May (W & J Wilder and Birmingham Engineering Co). For the first Mills contract the product was just 'Mills Grenades - Filled'. For the second is was 'Mills No 5 Mk I Filled'. So the No 5 was officially 'born' on the 13th May 1915.

There is a famous list of makers in both the Skennerton and Landers books which lists the first makers of the Mills Grenade. Examination of base plugs shows this list to be incomplete (and incorrect). There were at least 5 other makers working in that period and the evidence is in base plugs.

The reason seems to be that contracts were being placed by the Ministry of Munitions AND Trench Warfare at the War Office. At the same time the Royal Engineers were placing contracts with French factories (this was stopped after about 180,000 grenades were made) which resulted in a court case. In the summer of 1915 the Army were desperate for the new grenade, which left the No 1, No 2, No 15, Battyes and jam tins in the shade.

I think the ROFs got involved in WW2 but not WW1.

Snufkin may be able to add more clarity.

John
 
Mills started out as the sole manufacturer with two contracts, one of 50,000 (27th April 1915) and the next of 100,000 (13th May 1915). It was clear this was never going to be enough and contracts were placed with 2 other makers from the 13th May (W & J Wilder and Birmingham Engineering Co). For the first Mills contract the product was just 'Mills Grenades - Filled'. For the second is was 'Mills No 5 Mk I Filled'. So the No 5 was officially 'born' on the 13th May 1915.

There is a famous list of makers in both the Skennerton and Landers books which lists the first makers of the Mills Grenade. Examination of base plugs shows this list to be incomplete (and incorrect). There were at least 5 other makers working in that period and the evidence is in base plugs.

The reason seems to be that contracts were being placed by the Ministry of Munitions AND Trench Warfare at the War Office. At the same time the Royal Engineers were placing contracts with French factories (this was stopped after about 180,000 grenades were made) which resulted in a court case. In the summer of 1915 the Army were desperate for the new grenade, which left the No 1, No 2, No 15, Battyes and jam tins in the shade.

I think the ROFs got involved in WW2 but not WW1.

Snufkin may be able to add more clarity.

John

Thanks John and Mike.

I bow down humbly in recognition of your superior knowledge.
I think in this modern age we forget that back in 1914-18 there was no computers, internet, smartphones etc, no email, and sometimes not even telephone, was either telegraph, post or person to person, this goes some way to explaining the no5 baseplugs sometimes being dated after no23 etc etc.
Did Mills Munitions Birmingham satisfy that 150K? Upon doing a little research where the Mills factory was, the site hasn't got a very large footprint, largest factory in Birmingham area I know made no5 was Kenrick, they still on same site now, Victorian foundry building and offices are all thar remain from that time. Vaughan and JP&S sites larger than Mills too, Mills was probably only making grenades where as Kenrick, Vaughan and JP made other items too, saying that Archibald Kenrick and JP&S seem to be more common than Mills produced examples? (Going on baseplugs as no idea if bodies made by same manufacturer)
I found in my research that Kynoch Witton, close by in Birmingham too was producing caps and det sets as well as supplying HE Amatol and Baratol from ICI, anymore to substantiate this? Kings Norton Metal Co apparently made levers and rings.
My Great Auntie and her mother and grandmother (my Gt Gt Gran) Worked for W Pilson then J Parks in Willenhall, Great Aunt told me many times how all West Birmingham made was grenades in 1st and 2nd WW. "Guns and cartridges in East Brum, grenades and shells in West" she passed away 2015 aged 98. Was given 3 days leave to help out at BSA Small Heath plant after it was bombed, sent plane parts from BSA down Canal to Hawker Sidderly? (Unsure on spelling) boats loaded in private covered wharf at BSA. To a certain degree Birmingham was completely self sustaining as all parts made local.
Sorry for rattling on, whole subject is fascinating.
 
Huge amount of stuff to reply to there.

Yes, Mills completed their first two contracts but the dates are interesting.

Contract 94/G/86 (50,000) was completed 7 August 1915
Contract 94/G/137 (100,000) was completed on 8 December 1915

So 4 months to complete the first and 8 months for the second. So they averaged about 12,000 a month. The request rate of delivery was 3000 a week for the first contract and 1000 a week for the second.

Regarding factory sizes many of these makers were from a huge range of businesses. Some had pre-war staff levels in the low hundreds others were big and had 1000's of staff. They ranged from bicycle makers to boiler makers and even razor makers. Almost anyone who could work with cast iron and do some manufacturing was contracted. A bit like Sten production in WW2. So Mills rented what he could in 1915 and it was likely that others were snapping up properties for similar work. Mills were actually a modest supplier of grenades in WW1 making about 11,000,000 between 1915 and 1918.

Kynock were early collaborators with Mills. He went to them when he was making the first Mills Roland prototypes. He first met with Mr Ronald Fenby from Kynoch on the Saturday 30th January 1915. Mills being an expert in aluminium casting knew nothing about explosives or detonators and called in as much local knowledge as he could. I don't think ICI existed in WW1 so there would have been another supplier, probably Nobel.

Mills contracts were placed with many suppliers people have never heard of. i.e Parts such as No 5 bodies, springs, strikers, centre-pieces, levers, pins and rings, filler screws are all unmarked and were often made by sub contractors. Even named base plugs were sometimes made for firms by subcontractors. A good example is the London & Brighton Railway. Their name does not seem to exist in any list of 'official contractors', there are no base plugs for them (that I know of) but I have photos of them making grenades and their annual report in 1918 proudly states they made 10,000 Mills grenades in the Great War.

This is what is fascinating about the Mills. We know a lot but there is still a huge amount to learn.

John
 
Wow.. feel free to add another 10-20 paragraphs John, or Mike, this knowledge needs to be preserved, and I'm sure all here love every word.
Each time you reply it always throws up more questions! As Mills was producing around 3000 a month up to Dec 1915 who else supplied the early no5's? I'd guess they prob Birmingham based as well as other big wrought iron producers, Logistics must have been a nightmare! If lots of companies made all the parts who did final assembly and filling with HE? Kynoch?? Must have been in a controlled environment, Kynoch Eitton had blew up 3 times before WW1 started.
Oh, Nobel Kynoch etc became ICI in 1926, sorry I worded it wrong.
My brother has a Mills golf putter that's cast aluminium with a hickory shaft, leather wrapped handle, made in Sunderland, the aluminium piece is made very well, and is quite heavy, I'm 90% sure it's the same Mills as I know he's from Sunderland. Can anyone confirm this 100%?
Funny you should mention railway companies, -Wolverton Railway Works Buckinghamshire is near to me, this was primary production centre for LNWR from around 1843 up until 1922, then to a lesser extent LMS, a few what look like brass mills centre pieces were found recently on land that was used as a goods yard and then a tip, myself and a few friends tried to get access due to lots of interesting stuff being dug up, but we was denied due to aspestos and "Heavy metal" contamination, I've seen one of these tubes and I dismissed it as it had no thread or det channel, just the small hole, makes me think again now, had brass, iron and copper foundries there, I'll see if I can get a pic of one.
It is widely known that during WW2 the works made wings for bomber aircraft, 20mm AP projectiles and bodies for trucks. There is a WW1 era pillbox in the centre of Wolverton, on opposite side of road from what was a main entrance, very odd place for one. The Luftwaffe tried to bomb the works on 3 occasions during WW2, and missed by over a mile each time. Some people were killed in the nearby village of New Bradwell, and whilst building in area for City of Milton Keynes 2 50KG bombs were disposed of.
 
Who else was making the early Mills? - It's a good list.

Up to the end of June 1915 contracts were awarded to:

J Hinks & Sons
Allen West & Co
Dudley Foundry
James Cycle Co
J M Dougherty & Sons Ltd
Siemens Bros
Vickery's Patents
Birmingham Guild
Calthorpe Motor Co
Moore Brothers
Hawkins & Co
Dobson & Barlow
Thomas Messenger
Philips & Co
Westinghouse Brake
Falkirk Iron Co

Some of these early contracts were for unfilled grenades, others without detonator sets. It looks like the contracts were on the basis of 'Just make as many as you can'.

In addition I have base-plugs for 5 more makers dated August or September 1915 which must have been awarded contracts in the same May to June period. It looks like all these firms took about 2-3 months to get production going which is not surprising. So there may be even more early makers.

Yes, the Golf Club will be from William Mills of Sunderland. I have a few of them, plus he made shooting sticks at Sunderland and Birmingham, some marked for Mills Munitions.

Regarding King's Norton Metal - I've looked up their status in the official list in 1918. They are not mentioned as being in the list of grenades OR grenade parts. They were primarily SAA makers and their list of products is as follows: Small Arms Ammunition and quick firing cartridges, QF Cases, fuzes, primers, friction tubes, push tubes, radiator tubes, cartridge metal, and other non ferrous alloys. Shell filling, powder cases, B.L. cartridges, percussion caps, detonators and the like plus blow lamps! Telephone numbers King Norton 81 and Woolwich 538 !

From memory, King's Norton Metal were incorporated in the single conglomerate Explosive Trades in 1918 which became Nobels then ICI ultimately.

They had 2008 Male employees and 1412 Female employees at Kings Norton plus 353 Male and 1654 Female at Abbey Wood in SE London.

Interesting eh?

John
 
Nice list of manufacturers John do you have any grenade markings for Philips & Co i am not listing that manufacturer..... Dave
 
Dave

All I have for Philips & Co is :

Contract 94/G/305 dated 21 June 1915 for 156,000 Mills Grenades No 5 Mk I unfilled without igniters at 6000 per week. First delivery was from 14.7.1915 and the contract to run to December 1915.

They appear in a list of suppliers for 18 pdr shells with a contract date of 20.8.1915 but the contract is only for 100 shells - so probably a trial. They were located in the Metropolitan area which was London, Surrey and Kent.

By 1918 they had dropped out of the list of approved suppliers.

Not seen a plug for them.

John
 
Thanks John, Archibald Kenrick & Sons, West Bromwich?? Only manufacturer I can find that still going and has original buildings. It's amazing how many of that list are Birmingham based, Sheffield would be my 1st though considering Iron and steel production.
 
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Details in 1918

A Kenrick & Sons Ltd, Hall Street South, West Bromwich Tel No 212

Made - Mills Grenades, Stokes Bombs, Road Chain Links in Cast Steel, Tubes for exploded Containers, Malleable Cast iron.

450 Male and 685 Female employees.

Oddly they do not feature in a Ministry of Munitions 1916 listing of manufacturers so their contracts may have come from Trench Warfare.

John
 
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Dave's earliest is 10/1915 Brass cup. My earliest is 12/1915 same type. So October 1915 may have been their first delivery. They made a good selection of types including a unique No 23 Mk I which is a favourite of mine.

John
 
Dave's earliest is 10/1915 Brass cup. My earliest is 12/1915 same type. So October 1915 may have been their first delivery. They made a good selection of types including a unique No 23 Mk I which is a favourite of mine.

John
No 5 I have has a solid Kenrick plug, 2 locking holes recess to inside of plug, no month just No 5 I and 1915, 1st type lever and small ring.
When was the 1st type lever phased out??
 
No 5 I have has a solid Kenrick plug, 2 locking holes recess to inside of plug, no month just No 5 I and 1915, 1st type lever and small ring.
When was the 1st type lever phased out??

I'm not sure anyone could give you an accurate date as most of the early makers started with the drilled lever and some moved to the flat lever before others. Based upon what I have seen with battlefield found examples I would say that many makers had given up on that lever by the end of 1915 but I did see (from memory) a Mills Munitions No 5 dated March 1916 that still had that type. By the early summer of 1916 most makers were on the flat lever or the convex lever. Around July the ridged liver was coming in.

This is an area that is unclear though Snufkin may have some documentation on it.

John
 
Attached image shows channel levers being washed and lacquered; it is one of a sequence of the production process dated to July or August 1916. The lever was certainly used on the No.23 MkI, and I have seen at least one come out the ground with the combination of 23I base plug and channel lever. The manufacturer shown certainly had tens of thousands of stock, and was pressing and drilling thousands more, as of the July/August 1916 date. There was not likely to be a sharp cut-off of usage, as different firms no doubt used used up their stocks at different rates... and some companies - like the one shown - were particularly wedded to the use of that style of lever.



Tom.
 

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