Mills Grenade Split Pin Rings. One for those with quite a large collection

[Nismosonic]

Amazed with the knowledge of all who've replied here, I thought I'd did research using internet and was quite knowledgeable, but you guys have took it to another level.
Id def buy a book if any of you put it down on paper, this needs recorded for future knowledge, will be lost otherwise.
Gotta love the Mills series, I'm 48 in a couple of weeks and still have my dodgy 36 mk 1 FICO, with wrong base plug, I was given aged 14, only thing I've kept all this time, other things have been swapped, lost or binned along the way. There's Something about them I love, shape, aesthetic shape.. and a really interesting history, lots of lessons learned last few days, thanks John, Mike, Dave, Tom etc. Thanks to Mr Mills too.

 

[Millsman]

A Pleasure!

John

 

[Millsman]

The lever was certainly used on the No.23 MkI, and I have seen at least one come out the ground with the combination of 23I base plug and channel lever.


Tom.

Yes you are right. Memory lapse. I found a 23 Mk I with early lever about 10 years ago near the Manchester's Cemetery on the Somme. It also explains why so many bodies have the individual drilling and later levers don't always fit.

John

 

[Millsman]

Barber and Sons Ltd, West Bromwich...


Tom.

Tom

At first glance that looks like 1+1=3.

Did Barber & Sons take over the contract?

John

 

[Millsman]

I'm 48 in a couple of weeks and still have my dodgy 36 mk 1 FICO, with wrong base plug, I was given aged 14, only thing I've kept all this time, other things have been swapped, lost or binned along the way.

I've got an F I & Co with a dodgy seam (see photo). Probably should have been ground off but why bother?

John

 

[Nismosonic]

I've got an F I & Co with a dodgy seam (see photo). Probably should have been ground off but why bother?

John


View attachment 129902

thats lovely John, quite scarce I think as I've not found the FICO baseplug in 30 years of looking. Filler screw steel? I have a replacement brass one and a 41 dated zinc baseplug.
Today's questions... what sort of date did the striker become slotted to help release gasses? And why are some no 5 baseplugs solid brass and others deeply recessed?
Oh, and the levers, the drilled ones late 15, early 16, what then? The smooth levers or the one with the strengthening bar down the centre?
i have a 10/16 CAV marked No5 Mk1 with strengthened lever, is that correct for a 10/16 baseplug?

 

[Millsman]

Strikers

Almost as soon as the Mills entered service problems with 'burn through' occurred causing accidents. The solution was to have more air space.

Mills submitted patent 11,223 and 100,325 in August 1915. These show the first methods of slotting the striker. The patent was granted in May 1916.

However there seems to have been huge stocks of the solid first type striker and although some makers started using them in late 1916 others were still using the solid striker with the No 23 in late 1917 and even 1918 has been noted.

Gibbons of course filed his patent (110,068) in December 1916 which came into being with the No 23 Mk III.

I've attached a photo of the levers in the order I think they were introduced. There were overlaps with all the levers after the first type. Again, different makers different types and times.



I think your CAV No 5 would be probably right with a upward slotted lever.

John

 

[Snufkin]

Tom

At first glance that looks like 1+1=3.

Did Barber & Sons take over the contract?

John

Short answer is yes, Phillips and Barber had common ownership.

There appears to have been significant sharing and shifting of work from some prime contractors depending on capabilities and capacity. Even Mills Munitions Co. used sub contractors - some no longer known today - such as Izons (West Bromwich), Edmunds (Wednesbury), Vowles Bros (West Bromwich) to produce body castings.

Earlier in this thread mention was made of London, Brighton and South Coast Railway making 10,000 Mills grenades. This small quantity was almost certainly subbed out by Allen West in Brighton.

The attached snippet illustrates how companies were tending for grenade work.



Tom.

 

[Millsman]

Tom

Brilliant cuttings. I'd never seen those before. Do you think it reflects over production? Some familiar names in there - Wilders, Davis & Mawson. Is there a possibility of some of these early makers who didn't get repeat orders selling of their surplus stocks this way?

Regarding the London & Brighton Railway I had thought the close proximity of Vickery's Patents to the New Cross Railway works was a possibilty. The L&B R had engineering works at Shoreham and New Cross.

John

 

[Snufkin]

Tom

Brilliant cuttings. I'd never seen those before. Do you think it reflects over production? Some familiar names in there - Wilders, Davis & Mawson. Is there a possibility of some of these early makers who didn't get repeat orders selling of their surplus stocks this way?

Regarding the London & Brighton Railway I had thought the close proximity of Vickery's Patents to the New Cross Railway works was a possibilty. The L&B R had engineering works at Shoreham and New Cross.

John

John,

Up until the end of 1915 many small manufacturers from the Trade had free capacity and were fighting to get business. I don't think surplus stock was likely to have been an issue at that time, but who knows?

As for the LB & SC Railway, the 10,000 grenades were made at the Brighton and Lancing works. To add a few pictures of what they were doing, the following are from the Brighton works courtesy of Engineer magazine (I believe they have appeared on other websites so apologies if it's same old stuff). The first photo is a nice image showing the casting of the top and bottom halves of the early transverse cast grenades. The second photo shows the raw transverse castings before any machining, and before the horizontal grooves have been cut.



Tom.

 

[Nismosonic]

John,

Up until the end of 1915 many small manufacturers from the Trade had free capacity and were fighting to get business. I don't think surplus stock was likely to have been an issue at that time, but who knows?

As for the LB & SC Railway, the 10,000 grenades were made at the Brighton and Lancing works. To add a few pictures of what they were doing, the following are from the Brighton works courtesy of Engineer magazine (I believe they have appeared on other websites so apologies if it's same old stuff). The first photo is a nice image showing the casting of the top and bottom halves of the early transverse cast grenades. The second photo shows the raw transverse castings before any machining, and before the horizontal grooves have been cut.



Tom.

Any idea of the date of publication of this edition of Engineer Magazine?

 

[Millsman]

John,

As for the LB & SC Railway, the 10,000 grenades were made at the Brighton and Lancing works. To add a few pictures of what they were doing, the following are from the Brighton works courtesy of Engineer magazine (I believe they have appeared on other websites so apologies if it's same old stuff). The first photo is a nice image showing the casting of the top and bottom halves of the early transverse cast grenades. The second photo shows the raw transverse castings before any machining, and before the horizontal grooves have been cut.



Tom.

Thanks Tom, they are the photos I have and yes they illustrate the process very well and it looks like they made a quality product.

John

 

[Snufkin]

Any idea of the date of publication of this edition of Engineer Magazine?

It was June 4, 1920.



Tom.

 

[Millsman]

I know Mills made more money making aluminium golf putters than grenades in his Sunderland factory, government paying him around 27k it really is a very interesting history.

Thought you might like to see these two. One of Mills' Golf patents and a promotional paperweight.



John

 

[Nismosonic]

I wonder if there is anything else more obscure that he put his mind to?
Was thinking... who filled the grenades with explosive? Wouldn't think it's the grenade manufacturers, I should think they are produced empty as delivered to war department, and then filled and painted at a government facility.
Thinking further, why put filler screw in if empty? And baseplug? Anyone know procedure regarding this process from beginning to end?

 

[Millsman]

Was thinking... who filled the grenades with explosive? Wouldn't think it's the grenade manufacturers, I should think they are produced empty as delivered to war department, and then filled and painted at a government facility.
Thinking further, why put filler screw in if empty? And baseplug? Anyone know procedure regarding this process from beginning to end?

Contracts were for either filled or unfilled grenades. Unfilled grenades would be taken to a filling factory and filled and filler screws fitted.

There are a LOT of instructions on manufacturing and filling.

Starting in August 1915 with L3579 No 5 Mk I
September 1916 L 4179 for the No 23 Mk I
L4895, L4947 Covering the 23 Mk II in 1916
L4938 and L 4938B in September 1916 for the No 36
Also DITW 36 for the No 23 Mk II 1917
DITW 37 Nov 1917
DITW 48 Nov 1917
DITW 59 29/1/1918
DITW 61 29//1/1918
DITW 68 3/1918
DITW 76 September 1918


No shortage of instructions for filling. Details too great to list here.

However they don't detail makers filling or filling factory filling.

Sorry if the list is messy. Just took hurried notes from my files.

They cover the procedures through packing and even testing.

John