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unknown British case c.1900 ?

A

ammofo

Well-Known Member
I'm struggling to identify this case I picked up. It's in pretty poor condition but I was intrigued enough to buy it.
Here's what I reckon I know already but please put me right if need be....it's British, presumably Naval with a potential date of 1899, perhaps made at King's Norton Metal Co...
After that I'm stumped.
It measures 2 inches internally across the mouth and 195mm tall. It's also very heavy due to the thickness of the brass and the very long 'flash tube'. It's so long that there's not much room for a projectile, and this might be a clue...
DSCN1030.jpgDSCN1031.jpg
 
Mine has a 12oz charge so I'll need to find more on this but thanks for a fantastic reply. Mine has no trace of a wooden plug but I dare say that would have been destroyed in the firing?
Do you think the '21 7 99' is a date or not?
Would love to hear any more info on this delivery system if there's anybody with further knowledge on it.
I wouldn't have thought there are too many of these floating around, so please chip in if you've got one (photos would be great too for comparison)
 
Pics attached of the ones I used to have, the tube should unscrew if you are careful. They are not common at all,good find. Tig.
 
This one is proving a tough nut to crack. I can't find mention of a 12oz case anywhere (other than a previous thread on here!!). I think it would narrow down possibilities if I could definitely get some agreement on the '21 7 99' stamping.

I'm presuming that it refers to "lot 21" of "July 1899".......would anybody agree / disagree with this interpretation ?
 
ammofo said:
This one is proving a tough nut to crack. I can't find mention of a 12oz case anywhere (other than a previous thread on here!!). I think it would narrow down possibilities if I could definitely get some agreement on the '21 7 99' stamping.

I'm presuming that it refers to "lot 21" of "July 1899".......would anybody agree / disagree with this interpretation ?
Click to expand...

The case was originally a 3pr case and the date stamp is 21 July 1899. Subsequent to it's original use it was modified for firing torpedoes, but it doesn't appear that the date of modification was stamped on the base. The table in the other thread is only a snapshot of what was used in 1915. The 12oz case could have been used before or after that table was issued.
 
You would think that the modifications would have been made fairly soon after it's original use (if indeed it was ever fired as a 3 pdr), but theoretically it could have been stockpiled for years before use. I suppose the '12oz' factor would be the most crucial bit of the puzzle, but that's the bit I can't seem to get any further with !!
 
Perhaps some clues for you:

1) Table 38 displays a linear relationship between the torpedo's diameter and the size of the required charge:
i.e.
4oz > 14" torpedo
to
10oz > 21" torpedo.

2) 21" torpedoes came into usage ~1908 (RGF 21" Mk1) / ~1909 (Whitehead 21" Mk1)

3) RNTF produced a 24.5" torpedo in 1924 specifically for the battleships "Nelson" & "Rodney" - perhaps they required the higher 12oz charge?

Some food for thought!

Cheers
 
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There is an irrefutable logic to this and not something I had thought of.
On a similar note (something which I had considered) some torpedoes were launched above the water line and some below. I'd made a leap of faith that those launched below the surface would have to overcome considerable extra resistance from the water than those fired from deck. I think that this could be an equally valid consideration, and both hypotheses could work hand in hand to suggest a larger torpedo diameter.
My only thoughts on the 1924 angle is the considerable passage of time between the 1899 date and the introduction of a 24.5" torpedo in 1924.
More food for thought as ever with these tricky identifications ?!!
 
From memory, submarine launched torpedoes using an impulse firing system based on compressed air: (firing propellant charges within a sub underwater might not be the brightest idea IMHO)

https://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/air/chap2.htm

Above water torpedo launching systems tended to use the propellant cartridge impulse system - such as your case:

https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/ddtubes/index.htm#pg13

HMS Belfast in London has an excellent video showing how the ship's above water torpedo systems work using the impulse cartridges - just haven't explore if I can upload the video or not????

They may or may not re-stamp the date during the conversion - I have seen a 1899 10oz stamp case, which from the above information was used with 21" torpedoes (>1908)

Cheers
 
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That's so much info I'll have to plough through it before I respond properly !!!.....cheers for that.

I see by your example that there's at least a 9 year gap in cartridge re-use. That's good info in itself...
 
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