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  1. #1
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    3" mortar identification help

    Hi all

    i picked a 3in mortar and need help to identify type and date.

    i have found it's possibly a No 8a Smoke.

    markings are:

    body:
    TV69
    Q45.751
    C 1 S M K
    3 MOR

    fins:
    lot 262
    no 8a RCB7/57
    36/???

    fin shaft:
    TV27 JAP 1/57ES

    fin cartridge

    fuse has an aluminium ring and cap with a piece of wood inside:
    Cap: remove before firing, 11/40, no152 1, WD
    ring: mk1/1, orb, 2, 56,

    some markings are hard to see as someone has painted it black, would like to know the original colour and bands if any

    any help is greatful always

    cheers
    tim

  2. #2
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    It is possible that the fuze components were being used to provide an inert plug (or dummy fuze) for practice purposes. If so the fuze was painted black during assembly and would therefore be 'original'.

    The TV numbers are part numbers and it should be possible to 'decode' TV69 to give the body design, unfortunately my notes only go up to TV60.
    N.


  3. #3
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    I take it that you meant that the whole bomb is black, not just the fuze.

    If the whole bomb is black this is perfectly acceptable. The rules were that any empty bomb and an inert Fuze No 152 or 162 could be used as a drill bomb provided it was painted black and had a nose adapter.

    With a No 152 it became a Bomb 3" Mortar Drill Mk 1 and with a No 162 it was a Mk 2 bomb. Your No 152 Mk 1 fuze, manufactured in November 1940, has had the necessary stipulated modification in that it has been locally drilled in order to fit a pin "remove before firing" so that realistic training can be carried out, by ensuring that those under training remove a pin representing a No 162 fuze pin.

    The live No 152 was obsolete by 1957 and within a couple of years the inert No 152 (modified) drill bomb Mk 1 was declared obsolete.
    The Tail No 8A was a projection welded tail and could be used with long range bombs. Spot and arc welded tails could not.

    Should you wish to convert it back to a Smoke bomb the first thing you would have to do would be to obtain a Fuze Time Combustion No 390 Mk 2, 2A or 5. Then according to which one you obtained it would be possible to make a Smoke Bursting, Smoke Screening, Coloured Smoke (red, green, blue or yellow) or a Smoke Skytrail (red, green, blue or yellow) bomb. The markings would have to be to the system used in 1957 because that is when the bomb and tail were made.

    I do not know how many Fuzes No 152 Mk 1 of that date are around any more, from a value perspective, if it became surplus to requirements.

    Has your bomb got any evidence of welding round the body just below the adapter or 3 or 4 inches further down?
    Last edited by AE501; 20th March 2017 at 12:46 AM.

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    AMMOTECHXT (21st March 2017)

  5. #4
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    Hi Guys, thanks for the info, here are some photos that might help.

    Many Thanks
    Tim1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg5.jpg6.jpg7.jpg8.jpg9.jpg10.jpg

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  7. #5
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    The photos have helped no end. All that I said about Coloured Smoke and Skytrail has gone out of the window.
    The empty bomb body can only be cast iron for a Bomb ML 3" Mortar Smoke Mk 10 or 11 which may be filled with WP, CSAM or FM.
    The design is the same for them all, the only difference being the DD(L) Number which you will never know.
    There are anomalies. The Fuze No 152 has never been modified to 152M standard by being drilled and having the pin modification. The fuze body should also have been drilled if this was to be a Mk 1 drill bomb.
    A drill bomb should also have had a steel ring welded onto the bottom of each of the fins to prevent damage caused by repeatedly being dropped into a mortar tube. The fitting of a used sporting cartridge was acceptable.
    To make it an authentic drill bomb these things should be done. At one time it would have been possible to easily obtain a discarded pin from a No 162 fuze.
    It would be better to try to make it a smoke bomb as above.
    You would have to remove the black paint and the original phosphated varnish would be revealed. Shellac from your local hardware store is a good thing to use but there are other preparations.
    The markings would be as below for a bomb of the 1957 period with CSAM or FM substituted for WP if you preferred.
    L52/2 is the design number common to all these marks and fillings of bombs.
    Your Fuze No 152 was obsolete by this time but you could either get a No 162 or cheat by using a 162 cap on your existing fuze. It may be best to keep the No 152 as is if it is rare.
    I do not know how difficult it is to obtain a drill cartridge with its spring clip and striker.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    AMMOTECHXT (21st March 2017)

  9. #6
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    No 152 fuzes are not common at all, there used to be No 162 Rep fuzes everywhere!
    Always seeking British flares.

  10. #7
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    Wow many thanks AE501, fantastic info and very interesting.
    right now to get it back to its otpriginsl colours and markings.

    anymore help is always great fully received, cheers all
    tim

  11. #8
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    here are some of the cartridges used in the 3in. mortar
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kiwieod For This Useful Post:

    AE501 (21st March 2017), AMMOTECHXT (21st March 2017), MINENAZ16 (21st March 2017)

 

 

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