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unknown APFSDS penetrator body

Spaceinvader

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone,
here is a bit of a challenge for you all. I have looked online and through the few docs I have and cant find anything similar. Hopefully someone here knows.

It is the body of some type of APFSDS penetrator body minus the fins and ballistic cap from the front. Below are some measurments and info

-made of a tungsten alloy or a steel alloy, slightly magnetic but very heavy
-locking rings protrude out of main body
-smaller than a 105mm M735 penetrator (compared with in the photo and 120mm TPCSDS)
-only markings are "178" on the base
-length: 14 3/4 cm
-width: 23mm (on main body) 27mm (on locking rings)
-weight: 7lbs 6oz

If any other info is needed please let me know!
Rhys
 

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Thanks for showing your new items Rhys. What really puzzles me is the fact that the locking rings protrude from the main body. Surely that wouldn't be the best shape to fly through the air? I've looked at the ones I have and none seem to have this type of profile. Some of the Russian ones narrow to the rear of the locking rings but all I've seen have the locking rings more or less flush with the main body.
I'll be interested if someone can ID this one.
Dave.
 
...unless its missing the equivalent of a ballistic cap?

Yea I was thinking that Rich. Clearly there's a cap missing but would it extend all the way down to the locking rings? On the lower of the 3 shown in the first photo the alloy cap clearly extends down the body of the dart quite a long way but not as far as the locking rings.
Dave.
 
I think it would have to, and the same for the tail end.
The whole raison d'être for a fin round is velocity, so presenting anything other than a perfectly aerodynamic shape surely doenst make sense unless it alters the boundary layer in suchg a way to further reduce drag.
 
Thanks for the replys.

The odd locking rings puzzled me too. I have never seen another example of an APFSDS rounds with locking rings that stick out. When I can I will post another photo of the front end. It does appear there was a ballistic cap on it, however it does not appear it ran all the way down to the locking rings or from the fin end to the locking rings. It is made of some very tough hardened steel or tungsten alloy which leads me to think it was not an experimental piece nor a homemade piece (plus the lot number possibly and fine machine work). Hope someone knows some more.

By the way, is there a technical term for the "locking rings"? I have seen buttress grooves used also.
 
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Here is the tip of the rod. As you can see it looks like the ballistic cap only covered the first inch or so of the projectile then crimped on.
 

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The locking rings are indeed called, buttress grooves. If this is a US "adopted" 105mm I will compare it to the ones in my collection. I have all US adopted examples except for the M900 in my inert collection and that uses a much longer sub-projectile dart then this one. It may be a M774 or M833, I will check.

Jason
 
Just looking at some pictures of the M774, complete rounds and cutaways it looks like it could be. If the ballistic cap does go all the way to the top of the buttress grooves it is the closest I have seen. Other than the cap the rest looks like an M774.
 
With Jasons help, it does look to be a M774 body of some type. Dave and RichardB, you are correct, there would be a ballistic cap covering the whole front of the projectile down to the top of the buttress grooves.
 
Im not sure if this is the same M774, but it does appear to show the cap and tail both upto the buttress grooves. Modern ord isnt my thing, but there are some really interesting designs. It would be nice to see the complete projectile.
 

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Rhys, if you look at the photos I sent you, you will also notice that the M744 in my collection also has its buttress grooves that protrude slightly from the main body profile, something that, Dave B noticed and mentioned above, that also helps to ID it.

Jason
 
Have I missed something? There are three sub-projectiles. The upper one is from a LKL training shot, produced in Germany by Diehl. Te bottom one is probably from an Israeli M111.
 
I WAS THERE, the top one is a 120mm TPCSDS-T Sub-projectile (DM38 in Germany / M865 in the US) fitted with a LKL cone stabilizer. The middle one is the US 105mm M774 APFSDS dart without its cap and the bottom one is a US M735 APFSDS not an Israeli M111.

Jason
 
Hello everyone,
here is a bit of a challenge for you all. I have looked online and through the few docs I have and cant find anything similar. Hopefully someone here knows.

It is the body of some type of APFSDS penetrator body minus the fins and ballistic cap from the front. Below are some measurments and info

-made of a tungsten alloy or a steel alloy, slightly magnetic but very heavy
-locking rings protrude out of main body
-smaller than a 105mm M735 penetrator (compared with in the photo and 120mm TPCSDS)
-only markings are "178" on the base
-length: 14 3/4 cm
-width: 23mm (on main body) 27mm (on locking rings)
-weight: 7lbs 6oz

If any other info is needed please let me know!
Rhys

Just wanted to ask some questions about your projectile body, sorry for bringing up an old thread. Is the length of the penetrator from your picture suppose to be 14 3/4 cm or inches? Whats the diameter and length of the Frustum (the curved end where the ballistic cap would normally be)?
 
Just brought my collection back from storage to my new house. Looking at my M774, the ballistic cap travels all the way down to the top buttress thread so it is flush and not protruding and thus not a negative aerodynamic issue. The lower buttruss thread is indeed slighltly raised from the main body profile. I can attach pics if desired.

Jason
 
Just brought my collection back from storage to my new house. Looking at my M774, the ballistic cap travels all the way down to the top buttress thread so it is flush and not protruding and thus not a negative aerodynamic issue. The lower buttruss thread is indeed slighltly raised from the main body profile. I can attach pics if desired.

Jason

Hi Jason yes please to the pics.
Dave.
 
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