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British 15pdr case
- Thread starter Vasco Da Gama
- Start date
This is definitely a British case with the broad arrow and the ROF number next to it.
The circle with the multiple crosses means it has been condemned for use in the British services, however if these were sold to an overseas customer, he can do what he likes with them.(see attachment).
The 'A' in a circle, with a dot next to it is a British marking indicating that the case has been annealed after firing. There is only one dot which shows that it has only been annealed once, any further annealing would have been indicated by an additional dot.The letter 'K' in a circle next to it is for Kynoch indicating that one of their factories carried out the remedial work.
The circle with the multiple crosses means it has been condemned for use in the British services, however if these were sold to an overseas customer, he can do what he likes with them.(see attachment).
The 'A' in a circle, with a dot next to it is a British marking indicating that the case has been annealed after firing. There is only one dot which shows that it has only been annealed once, any further annealing would have been indicated by an additional dot.The letter 'K' in a circle next to it is for Kynoch indicating that one of their factories carried out the remedial work.
I have a feeling that there is more than one hand in this.
There are definite annealing and for dummy use only markings, as used by the British, but I do not know if these are exclusive.
There is the broad arrow.
But the layout of the markings is not British at that time.
Perhaps Gspragge was right in his first assertion about the case being German in origin for use with the imported Erhard 15Pr guns.
I am unfamiliar with these and perhaps the K in a circle was Karlsruhe at that time.All the WWI cases I ever saw had the full name.
I felt that the date stamp letters were very Germanic and well struck, compared to some of the other markings.
There are definite annealing and for dummy use only markings, as used by the British, but I do not know if these are exclusive.
There is the broad arrow.
But the layout of the markings is not British at that time.
Perhaps Gspragge was right in his first assertion about the case being German in origin for use with the imported Erhard 15Pr guns.
I am unfamiliar with these and perhaps the K in a circle was Karlsruhe at that time.All the WWI cases I ever saw had the full name.
I felt that the date stamp letters were very Germanic and well struck, compared to some of the other markings.
H
Hoeksel
Guest
I also tend to go for German export. The letter "K" I know from 47 mm cases as the images from GSpragge show. This case exists as marked with "K" only and as German marked. The 15 pounder case shown here, also is known as German marked. Unfortunately I have no images of this head stamp. So the 2 examples I know marked with "K" only, exist as German marked as well. Makes it much more plausible for me then Kynoch.
These are the threads which have discussed K in circle marked cases;
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/97217-unknown-47mm-round?p=286766#post286766
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/96353-K-in-circle-head-stamped-shell?
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threa...-marking-on-export-(-)-casings-Who-made-them?
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/97217-unknown-47mm-round?p=286766#post286766
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/96353-K-in-circle-head-stamped-shell?
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threa...-marking-on-export-(-)-casings-Who-made-them?
Vasco Da Gama
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the improved photo.
I find it pays to read books that you have had for years.
All is now clear to me at least. Perhaps some already knew the answer. This is a genuine case.
The original British 15 pounder was a BL gun developed from the 12 pounder and both were the Field Artillery standard gun in 1899. These had bagged cordite charges.
News came in 1897 that the French had a revolutionary 75mm QF gun which had recoil and recuperator systems, on a slide principle.
The French at that time were perceived to be Britain's potential main enemy.
We had nothing on the drawing board at that time with anything like that potential.
In 1900 the German public were very anti British, in part due to the Anglo Boer War, not to mention the naval arms race. The British public felt much the same about Germany.
But needs must, so in great secrecy on both sides, we purchased 18 artillery batteries worth of 15 pounder QF guns and equipment, from the engineering firm of Erhardt, Dusseldorf, which obviously included QF ammunition. Every reference to Erhardt was omitted from the ammunition and equipment. These guns also operated on a slide system and had recoil and recuperation.
Your revised photo clearly shows "NK" which is a British marking indicating that the manufacturer is "NOT KNOWN".
Therefore all that I said except the 'K' in the circle stands and was almost certainly Karlsruhe. I also think what I said about the date was right.
In 1907 some of the original British BL guns were converted to QF and were given to the Territorial Army, but the dates would not have been consistent with the Erhardt period.
I find it pays to read books that you have had for years.
All is now clear to me at least. Perhaps some already knew the answer. This is a genuine case.
The original British 15 pounder was a BL gun developed from the 12 pounder and both were the Field Artillery standard gun in 1899. These had bagged cordite charges.
News came in 1897 that the French had a revolutionary 75mm QF gun which had recoil and recuperator systems, on a slide principle.
The French at that time were perceived to be Britain's potential main enemy.
We had nothing on the drawing board at that time with anything like that potential.
In 1900 the German public were very anti British, in part due to the Anglo Boer War, not to mention the naval arms race. The British public felt much the same about Germany.
But needs must, so in great secrecy on both sides, we purchased 18 artillery batteries worth of 15 pounder QF guns and equipment, from the engineering firm of Erhardt, Dusseldorf, which obviously included QF ammunition. Every reference to Erhardt was omitted from the ammunition and equipment. These guns also operated on a slide system and had recoil and recuperation.
Your revised photo clearly shows "NK" which is a British marking indicating that the manufacturer is "NOT KNOWN".
Therefore all that I said except the 'K' in the circle stands and was almost certainly Karlsruhe. I also think what I said about the date was right.
In 1907 some of the original British BL guns were converted to QF and were given to the Territorial Army, but the dates would not have been consistent with the Erhardt period.
Are the letters NK not simply the end of the word BLANK, albeit with the letters LA barely stamped? The B is in perfect alignment with the NK, and there appears the very top of the vertical of L visible after the B.
The stamping of an asterisk over the lower part of the B might need an explanation, but the symbol definitely appears to be an asterisk rather than apex-to-apex pheons.
The stamping of an asterisk over the lower part of the B might need an explanation, but the symbol definitely appears to be an asterisk rather than apex-to-apex pheons.
Well spotted Snufkin. I was so excited at seeing NK on a munition for the first time that I failed to look at the rest. I thought that it was being used as part of the secrecy.
The asterix is the indicator that the case is not to be used as a service cartridge, it can only be a dummy or used as a blank.
The asterix is the indicator that the case is not to be used as a service cartridge, it can only be a dummy or used as a blank.
Vasco Da Gama
Well-Known Member
First my apologises, this case is the first 15pdr case I have come across in my 40 years of collecting but I assumed others would have seen plenty. I posted a quick picture for general interest and what I should have done is take more time get the photo right and type in the markings I could see. On close examination Snufkin is correct the word BLANK is present with he * in the bottom of the letter B, sorry gents.