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German 5cm HVAP projectiles

Spaceinvader

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone,
I have my eye on a semi-relic German 5cm PzGr.40 HVAP (Arrowhead, APCBC). My question is, are specific projectiles made for the 2 different 5cm cases? Tried looking online but cant find a definitive answer.

I have a round for the KwK39 and a case coming for a PaK38 but is there a difference in the projectiles they used? Would be nice to be able to make a correct, complete 5cm PzGr40 round.

Thanks!
Rhys
 
Hi Rys, the PzGr40 was used on a shellcase for the 5cm Kwk38 L/42 and the 5cm Pak 39. The Kwk38 shellcase is shorter than the Pak shellcase, but they have one thing in common, they have a longer straight neck and a low crimp, so, the Pzgr40shellcase is not interchangable with the Pzgr and the HE shell.
Here some pictures, clearly showing the difference.
So make shure you do not buy a Pzgr39 or HE shell shellcase with a Pzgr40 projectile on it
Regards, DJH

5cm Pzgr.40 ausf.B. (type B) for the 5cm Kw.K.38 L/42, as used in the Pzkw. type III. The projectile is a arrow shaped steel body, containing a tungsten carbide core. The tip of the projectile is a bakelite nose, screwed in top of the steel body. The upper part of the tip has a thin steel shield to prevent it from breaking up if handled. The weight of the projectile is 0,925 kg (2,03 Lb), the tungsten core has a weight of 0,335 kg (0,74 Lb).
In the bottom of the projectile a tracer element No.8 is screwed in, it burns for two seconds. Length of the projectile is 138mm (including tracer)
Length of tungsten core: 43mm.
Vo.: 1060 mtrs/sec. Penetration (at a 30 degree angle): 96mm at 100 mtrs, 58mm at 500 mtrs.
The shellcase is a cupper cladded steel shellcase with a length of 289mm. The powdercharge exists of a small bag of riflepowder in the bottom of the shellcase, above and around the electric primer. It contains 10 grams of Nz. Man. Np. (1,5x1,5) powder. The main charge is available in two types, either: 577 grams of Digl.Rp. (Diglycol powderstick) 8,2(188x2,2/0,85) (188mm long x outer dia.ø2,2mm /hole ø0,85mm), either 515 grams Digl.Rp. 9,5(188x2,5/0,9).
Length of the complete cartridge is 360mm.
 

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And the Pak version on a WRONG shellcase
 

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  • 50 mm PAK 38 APHC T-Ger-Wo2-01-sec.JPG
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Thank you very much pzgr40, that explains it! I may or may not have the correct KwK38 casing at home, I will have to check.

I will send you a PM as I still have a few questions.
 
Has anyone ever seen a 5cm Pzgr40/1 or have any additional information -- 4th from left in the picture attached

5cm.jpg

Rich
 
Not in all my years of collecting, and not with any of the specialized German collectors.......
 
Has anyone ever seen a 5cm Pzgr40/1 or have any additional information -- 4th from left in the picture attached Rich

Two types of the 5 cm Pzgr 40/1 are shown in the Geschossringbuch.
 

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Does anyone have information regarding the propellant weight for these types of PzGr 40? I would be interested in the actual powder used, and also the weight, thanks!
 
Source HDv 119/313 Schußtafel für die 5cm Panzerjägerkanone 38, 5cm Kampfwagenkanone 39 in Behelfsßockellafette, 5cm Kampfwagenkanone 39, 5cm Kampfwagenkanone 39/1 und 5cm Kampfwagenkanone 39/2 from 1943
Bob
 

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From my collection, relic condition unfortunately.
20181202_141808.jpg20181202_141725.jpg20181202_141753.jpg
 

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Hello,
Question about casing of 5cm Pzgr 40/1 Ausf P.
I have a picture of 5cm Pzgr and I'm quite sure it's a Pzgr40/1 Ausf P. The case is different from the doc.
First when I looked quickly I thought it was a a Pzgr40/B inserted in a rusty case but when I looked closely I saw a gape at the bottom of the shell.
The top (truncated bottle shape) is very short. Interesting to see the general shape of the complete round is the same as Pzgr40/B.

D435.1-KwK39.jpg5c.jpg5c2.JPG
 
Hello,
Question about casing of 5cm Pzgr 40/1 Ausf P.
I have a picture of 5cm Pzgr and I'm quite sure it's a Pzgr40/1 Ausf P. The case is different from the doc.
First when I looked quickly I thought it was a a Pzgr40/B inserted in a rusty case but when I looked closely I saw a gape at the bottom of the shell.
The top (truncated bottle shape) is very short. Interesting to see the general shape of the complete round is the same as Pzgr40/B.

View attachment 148410View attachment 148411View attachment 148412

I used to have a 3.7cm arrowhead shell that was similar. The crimping groove had split away from the rest of the case so the arrowhead part was encased in the narrow top part of the case and it rested on the remainder of the case. All I can assume is that when someone tried to removed the projectile the case had split along the line of weakness of the crimp line.
Dave.
 
This projectile was also used in the KwK39 L/60 on the Pzkpfw.III Ausf.L/M
 

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