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  1. #1
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    Help required with 9mm case identification

    Would appreciate help with a 9mm (9x19) case headstamp identification.

    The appended image has a headstamp of: S 57 9

    The headstamp in question is: S 12 60

    The positioning and orientation of (S 12 60) is exactly as shown in the appended image for (S 57 9).

    My initial thought, on seeing the headstamp, was that the 'S' was: Königliches Munitionsfabrik, Spandau, Germany, from 1960.

    However; on looking at layouts (Small Calibre Ammunition Identification Guide, R.T. Huntington 1978), it became more probable that the 'S' might be: Pirotecnia Militar de Sevilla, Spain.

    My difficulty is; in accepting that the interpretation of the headstamp as Pirotecnia Militar de Sevilla, Spain, would give a manufacturing date of 1912. Could this be correct?

    I have been reading around and have found some additional comments extracted from the IAA.
    My apologies that I have not referenced the authors of the comments from IAA, that are as follows:

    "According to "Tratado de Cartuchería" by Lanza there was some 9 mm Parabellum production even before the 1920's.
    Two different models are described:

    9 mm Parabellum, ordinario, mod. 1904: This one is said to be produced by Pirotecnia Militar de Sevilla starting in 1904 until 1910-20.

    9 mm Parabellum, ordinario, mod. 18: Produced by Pirotecnia Militar de Sevilla in 1918."


    "The 1939 production was certainly not completely in German Specification. Case drawings are with each cartridge in the book Cartucheria Española, by Angel Molina Lopez and Alfonso Orea Maestro, both officers of the Spanish Ordnance Corps. They show two cartridges earlier than the PS 39 round. One is headstamped "S 5 17" attributed to Sevilla."


    I am quite excited to think that this might be a case from 1912, but; am also aware that everything is not always as it seems.

    Any assistance would be much appreciated.

    Regards,

    dhooghe
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    Last edited by dhooghe; 13th September 2017 at 02:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    Any evidence of a primer annulus seal (black, green)?

    Does the primer appear to be brass or copper?


    A picture of the headstamp could possibly help in identifying the maker of the cartridge case.

    Brian

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    dhooghe (17th September 2017)

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdgreen View Post
    Any evidence of a primer annulus seal (black, green)?

    Does the primer appear to be brass or copper?


    A picture of the headstamp could possibly help in identifying the maker of the cartridge case.

    Brian
    Hi Brian,
    The primer is brass with a black annulus seal.
    Regards,
    dhooghe

  5. #4
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    9mm Parabellum Headstamp & Case Type Guide, Vol. III, Lew Curtis, Pirotecnia Militar de Sevilla, Sevilla, Spain only used the " S " headstamp for 3 years, quote " Only encountered on standard brass cases dated 1958, 1961 and 1963."

    The other possibility is that this is an early Spandau (pre WW1 German) case. These had black primer annulus seal.

    A picture of the headstamp would help.

    Brian

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    dhooghe (17th September 2017)

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdgreen View Post
    9mm Parabellum Headstamp & Case Type Guide, Vol. III, Lew Curtis, Pirotecnia Militar de Sevilla, Sevilla, Spain only used the " S " headstamp for 3 years, quote " Only encountered on standard brass cases dated 1958, 1961 and 1963."

    The other possibility is that this is an early Spandau (pre WW1 German) case. These had black primer annulus seal.

    A picture of the headstamp would help.

    Brian
    Brian, I do not think it is a pre WW1 Spandau. Only if dhoogde was reading the year wrong it could be “S 12 09”.
    Perhaps dhoogde can tell us if he speaks about a case or a cartridge.

    The change by Spandau of the bullet was in November 1916. (conical to round nose)

    Rgds
    Last edited by Dutch; 17th September 2017 at 12:57 PM.

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    bdgreen (17th September 2017), dhooghe (17th September 2017)

  9. #6
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    Hi Brian and Dutch,
    My apologies for not having responded sooner. I've been having camera problems......now resolved. Have appended an image showing the headstamp, that I hope will assist.
    Best regards,
    dhooghe
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    Last edited by dhooghe; 17th September 2017 at 08:16 PM.

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  11. #7
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    Yes, you are showing a pre WW1 Spandau from Dezember 1909.

    Best regards

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    bdgreen (19th September 2017), dhooghe (18th September 2017)

  13. #8
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    Hi Dutch and Brian,
    What a wonderful surprise.....the oldest 9mm in my collection and the only one from Spandau.
    Many thanks for your help and greatly appreciated.
    Best regards,
    dhooghe

 

 

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