Vickers 42 x 260 R65

[Tony Williams]

This question was posted 24 years ago in the ECRA Bulletin, and as far as I know received no responses.

Does anyone know anything about this round, or the gun which fired it?

 

[Hoeksel]

According my reference list this is a 1,65" Heavy NORDENFELT.

 

[Tony Williams]

Thank you. Do you know anything about the gun - who used it, and for what?

 

[Tony Williams]

I see that Hawkinson lists it as being for a British naval weapon, but I can find no reference to such a gun. I assume it was experimental?

 

[Gspragge]

This might help 42mm Nordenfelt. Since Maxim Nordenfelt became Vikers Maxim and Sons, it follows that they would
fill orders later on for existing guns in service that they had sold previously. I just noticed the old post was from Spain,
they were used there but the casing were not made there (as far as I know) but the projectiles were. Spain imported various
37mm types as well over time so this later casing is not out of line at all.

 

[highlandotter]

Italy used the round in , I believe, a naval landing gun. I have 2 examples, 1 from the 1890s and another from WW1, main difference is the fuze. I also have an example with copper plated projectile but with no country ID.

 

[highlandotter]

The Italians referred to it as a Nordenfelt, and I found a photo of it book l'Artiglieria Italian della Grand Guerra, by Andrea Curami and Alessandro Massignani. Looks like small, ordinary 2 wheeled gun.

 

[Tony Williams]

Many thanks, gentlemen!

 

[Tony Williams]

This might help 42mm Nordenfelt. Since Maxim Nordenfelt became Vikers Maxim and Sons, it follows that they would
fill orders later on for existing guns in service that they had sold previously. I just noticed the old post was from Spain,
they were used there but the casing were not made there (as far as I know) but the projectiles were. Spain imported various
37mm types as well over time so this later casing is not out of line at all.

Just for general clarification: the images you posted include tables which describe two different guns using different ammo, judging by the very different muzzle velocities. This is backed up by Hawkinson, who lists a 42 x 153R case for the mountain gun; the 42 x 260R case shown in the drawing, and in the ammo photo you posted, is obviously a lot more powerful.

 

[HAZORD]

I have 3 42mm rounds, one in the short case, and two in the tall case. One projectile in the tall case is copper plated like Otter's. The only markings on my cases are a single N on each case head.

 

[Tony Williams]

Any chance of a photo of the two rounds, side by side? :tinysmile_twink_t2:

 

[HAZORD]

I will take some shots today.

 

[Gspragge]

"Just for general clarification: the images you posted include tables which describe two different guns using different ammo, judging by the very different muzzle velocities. This is backed up by Hawkinson, who lists a 42 x 153R case for the mountain gun; the 42 x 260R case shown in the drawing, and in the ammo photo you posted, is obviously a lot more powerful."

Then in this case we are just working with the navel round which makes sense in this instance.

Usually the Navel guns of this type came with a simple field carriage so the gun could be dismounted and taken ashore.
This isn't shown, but if the customer wanted this certainly it could be provided and maybe that is what the Italian gun
mentioned is.
Can an image of this be posted ?

As an aside, the mountain gun version must be much rarer than the navel, does any one have one of those rounds ?

 

[hasag]

http://cartucheria.es/Artilleria/42x260R.html

Saludos

 

[Tony Williams]

http://cartucheria.es/Artilleria/42x260R.html

Saludos

That's interesting - the diagram shows a 184 mm case length - so that's three different 42mm rounds so far?

 

[hasag]

If at the moment 3, I only know the 260mm I never saw the other two.
Saludos

 

[Hoeksel]

42x184 = light Nordenfelt (Italian 42/37)
42x260 = heavy Nordenfelt

 

[Tony Williams]

42x184 = light Nordenfelt (Italian 42/37)
42x260 = heavy Nordenfelt

Thanks - I don't suppose anyone has all three cases in their collection?

 

[hasag]

Creo que supones bien Tony....

 

[HAZORD]

OK, I apologize! One for being tardy, and one for having a spotty memory. When your collection is 150 ft. from your computer, you tend to slip on numbers. While I have been being tardy, the discussion has added another case length, the 42 X 184.

So, I went out to check things out, and instead of having the 42 X 153 in Nordenfelt, I have the 42 X 260R, and the 42 X 184R ( I had rounded it up to 185). Since these are 1.65 inch, I checked my U.S. turn of the century 1.65 inch gun rounds, and they are 153mm long. Since the U.S. copied everyone else's calibers back then, is the 42 X 153 Nordenfelt the same as the U.S. 1.65 inch gun case?

I will post a photo of all three together.