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US 1960 120mm Complete AP Round for the M103 Heavy Tank

M8owner

Well-Known Member
I found this complete round in an antique shop and could not turn it down for $150. It is amazing the projectile and case stayed together all these years. The case mouth is much larger than the projectile, and the two will not mate as these were separately loaded. The M103 tank had two loaders, and it was in service from 1957-1974 with only 300 tanks made - most went to the Marine Corps. These rounds were supposed to punch holes in Soviet IS-3 tanks. It is shown next to a 115mm HE round for the Soviet T-62 tank and a US 1960 dated, brass 105mm tank case. It is amazing the US made a plain old 1940 technology AP round in 1960 for this gun. This M358 AP round is simply an hardened steel penetrator with ballistic cap design - no tungsten core. This same ammunition was used in the British Conqueror heavy tank.

My primary question is about the paint on the projectile. The paint appears original, but the aluminum nose is pained black and the body is Olive Drab. All the photos I can find of these rounds show them repainted all black. Is this dual paint scheme original? I have seen US 57mm and 76mm AP rounds with original Olive Drab paint, and I even have an original paint 76mm AP with a black nose and Olive Drab body.

The brass case is supposed to be topped off by a combustible, black plastic cap. Does anyone have a spare cap?

Thank you for your help.
 

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Hey M8owner!

You got a great deal on that package! I paid $150 for my M358E1 AP projectile alone. The M103 is my personal favorite tank, so I'm trying to put together the whole family of ammunition for it. I also have a T16E3 WP shell for the M103.

Anyway the M358 and M358E1 should be entirely black with white lettering. I have a picture attached of my M358E1, also dated 1960 like yours, which still retains some original paint and the markings (someone painted around the markings thankfully). I've also got a couple pages out of the manuals, including the TM 9-7014 for the tank itself (when it was still a T43E1).
 

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What is that rubber ring attached to the bottom of your projectile? I have seen other pictures with it on the AP projectile. It appears to be attached by a large washer and bolt to the bottom of the projectile in those other photos, but it is not shown in the manual. My guess is that it is a retention device that holds the projectile in the chamber while the case is being loaded separately. This would not normally be an issue with stationary, separately loaded weapons like artillery pieces. I will bet that the vibrations from a moving tank made this modification necessary to keep the projectile from sliding back out of the gun while loading. The manual does clearly show the black plastic plug that capped off the brass case.
 
So my best guess is that the ring is a retention device like you mentioned, though I'm not 100% positive. I think the ring is there to keep the projectile from going to far in the gun when loaded. I do know that there was potential for an overzealous loader to shove the projectile too far in the gun and then the second loader would be unable to load the casing since an air pocket would form and keep the casing from fully seating and thus the breech wouldn't close. Then the crew would have to get out of the tank and ram the projectile out of the tube.

The tracer element is actually what holds the rubber ring on, it's attached to a little plate that screws on the base. The M358E1 projectile also uses a different casing plug as opposed to the M358 pictured above in the manuals. I did some searching and can only find this still of the casing plug from a walkaround of the M103 on Youtube.
 

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The "plastic" cap is now in place in the cartridge case. I will paint it black and make a pin to hold the projectile in place. It is almost ready for display. I realize displaying it all together is not technically correct, but I think it looks better this way and takes up less floor space.
 

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Looks awesome, thing must be huge! Another example of one I have the case for, waiting to luck into a projectile....but I know the case alone is gigantic, probably worth a bunch just in scrap weight!
 
Here are a couple of mine. I've got a better practice one with the windscreen still in place, but no pictures at work.

120mm M358E1 AP-T.jpg120mm M359E2 AP-TP-T.jpg
 
A spare complete round has just fallen into my lap, and I will sell the projectile and case separately.
 

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A spare complete round has just fallen into my lap, and I will sell the projectile and case separately.

I tried to send you a PM and got this - M8owner has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space
 
Since I don't completely understand this system, does that mean you received the PM?
 
Steve, Nice work. Now I understand what you were talking about. Here's mine if you need template for the stenciling. Cheers, Bruce.
 

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120mm T116E5 AP-T

I just received this one. Little rust, ink markings still visible. It should clean up well. The band is engraved " RJW-1-32, 120MM, AP-T T116E5". Looking for a brass case....M8, still have one?
 

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A decade or 2 or 3 back I sought to complete a collection of the Marine Corps 120mm tank rounds as they were available at the time. I'm still looking for the WP and WP-T projos. I built special angle iron shelf supports for these, so they are grouped with the 165mm and 152mm rounds. The case with the cork mouth plug is for the Strato FLAK projo.
 

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Well, those photos are truly impressive. I have never even seen a photo of the 152mm canister projectiles before.
 
U.S. Subs has a nose-fuzed 152mm Apers! In my photos, the leftmost Apers has the base of a fired projectile resting on top of it. Just a plate with a rotating band around it, and a shoulder for the can to attach.
 
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