British Ordnance Collectors Network
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
What is the item on her neck?
- Thread starter sksvlad
- Start date
I hope you are talking about the woman.
1. You don't know the accuracy of the reporting. It is after all Fox News, right up there with Cartoon Network.
2. The Screening officers have no choice in the matter, they face an incredible task in filtering out the vast array of potential threats, from toxic materials to firearms to explosives. There are historic pieces that they are expected to find and stop as well as new developments. Size is not a criteria. If you set a definition someone will build something to specifically get around it. You cannot train thousands of officers on every possible detail and expect them to keep up in every variation that comes up. The scope of the task is phenomenal, most people will never realize how difficult it is. The officers are given flat instructions, if it meets this appearance, it does not go. When you have over a million people in the sky at any instant (US alone) you cannot have the officers trying to determine specifics or look things up in order to split hairs. If the officers had let it go it is possible that they could have been held accountable.
3. In the US alone 3957 guns were found in carry on bags last year, over 80% of them loaded. This included the newest plastic "3d printed" guns, which do not look like a conventional firearm at all. I have personally seen a range from pen guns through a panzerfaust (with rocket) that were located by the screening officers.
4. The woman is an idiot, and the story is overblown. The items were not "confiscated". She was given a range of choices - take back to her checked bag, give to someone not travelling, take off-airport (put in your car), mail it off-site, have it held by security or abandon it. She chose to abandon it. Her claims of deep sentimental value went to crap as soon as she heard about the $11.00 fee to have it held. I was surprised to hear that they would have held it for her, that generally will not happen in the US.
I recognize that sometimes there are questionable calls that seem extreme, but in the US one airport alone pushed through over 500,000 passengers through their security checkpoints last week. Keep in mind that on 9-11 four aircraft were brought down with box-cutters. When the US tried to relax some of the regulations on knives a couple of years ago it was the flight crews and airlines that went up in arms to keep the rules in place. If you could see the amount of hazardous crap that people try to sneak through on a daily basis - concentrated acids, toxic materials, knives, guns, clubs, ammunition - you might possibly rethink which side the idiots sit on and which ideas are the more pathetic.
"it was up to the individual security officers" As reported by the press -
In the US there is less discretion (if this is in fact true as reported overseas). The shift supervisor may have some discretion, but not generally the officers. Still, it is a reasonable objection and in some events you get down to frustrating discussions - First thing to recognize is that no firearms are allowed by the public, or replicas that could potentially cause panic. What is the smallest size firearm? There are some ridiculous pieces out there, but what is the break point and who makes it? Where ever that point is, you must clearly make the same point for replicas. The simplest decision is to allow none - no arguments, no spending time on measurements or discussion, simply take it out and put it back in your car etc., don't bring it to the security checkpoint. The same decision is made for knives. If it has a sharpened edge it does not come on board. The officers are not allowed discretion over any of this, and may in fact be tested to see if someone can convince them to allow a prohibited item on board. You see some of the .22 mini derringers that look like toys, trying to keep a screening workforce of 40,000 trained on "this, but not that" becomes virtually impossible on all items. Don't blame the screeners, blame the idiot that painted the muzzle of his Beretta orange to look like a kids toy.
Most screening procedures are generally reactionary, put in place after some idiot has forced the issue. Shoes stayed on till the shoe bomber attempted his attack. Liquids were accepted until the plot to bring down 5 aircraft at once with liquid explosive in Gatoraid bottles was initiated. None of these folks enjoys being bitched at by some irate passenger who thinks that they clearly don't look like a terrorist, why should their knife, toy, kubaton, acid, gasoline be kept out? Common sense would be great, but once you get a chance to see behind the curtain you realize that common sense only works if it is on both sides of the table.
"Common Sense" is actually a rarity these days.............the whole airport security sage is a joke due to inconsistent implementation. After 911, only plastic cutlery was issued aboard flights, then steel cutlery started appearing in Business /1st Class (obviously terrorists must be poorly funded!). On my last flight back from Thailand - steel cutlery issued throughout all classes and has been like this for several years now. Domestic flights between Sydney <> Melbourne: Sydney had to remove one's shoes - via Melbourne can stay on.
Bottled water not permitted through main security checks (fair enough), but purchased bottled water within the "secured" departure zone normally is, however some carriers ban those as well.
My Wife is blonde and continuously "selected" for the drug /explosive check once we pass through the security checks - it appears that they must pick a token Caucasian (i.e. Blonde) so they don't appear to discriminate against the non-white population (she also attractive as well!!!)
She even several years ago "lost" a pair of sterling silver necklace handcuffts - probably 1/2" in diameter - the pathetic excuse is that they could be used as finger cuffs.
Don't you ever wonder why the Martians haven't invaded us? They are too amused by our stupidity.
Bottom line - the security guys /gals are only human - some are more understanding than others - have you even bother to say "hello - how's your day going"? Normally breaks the ice and you can see a "human" not an AI side to them.
Cheer
D
Bottled water not permitted through main security checks (fair enough), but purchased bottled water within the "secured" departure zone normally is, however some carriers ban those as well.
My Wife is blonde and continuously "selected" for the drug /explosive check once we pass through the security checks - it appears that they must pick a token Caucasian (i.e. Blonde) so they don't appear to discriminate against the non-white population (she also attractive as well!!!)
She even several years ago "lost" a pair of sterling silver necklace handcuffts - probably 1/2" in diameter - the pathetic excuse is that they could be used as finger cuffs.
Don't you ever wonder why the Martians haven't invaded us? They are too amused by our stupidity.
Bottom line - the security guys /gals are only human - some are more understanding than others - have you even bother to say "hello - how's your day going"? Normally breaks the ice and you can see a "human" not an AI side to them.
Cheer
D
A little background info to help clear a couple things up - Australian security runs similar to US, some differences but the same principles -
The water you purchase on the other side of the security checkpoint has already gone through testing and been cleared. It takes a little while, but is done (depending on the size of the airport) in a different area where time and throughput of the passengers is not an issue. If it has not been cleared it does not board. So if you are at a location that does not have the capacity to clear the liquids for purchase they are denied.
There are different programs that go by different names, all intended to speed up the boarding process. Pre-check, Global Traveler, etc. These involve background investigations etc and if you are approved you can be granted different procedures designed to speed up your time through the checkpoint. Keep you shoes on etc. In some cases, on some routes deemed lower hazard etc the airline can submit some traveler names without their knowledge (consent is given when you purchase the ticket) and a criminal records check etc may be done before you ever arrive to the airport. In these cases, if all security checks are met you may be granted the privileges without having officially entered the program. You then are told to keep your shoes on etc.
Blond, Caucasian, etc has nothing to do with any selection process. Much more likely is the clothing or physical stature of your spouse. As you pass through the checkpoint you are going through a number of machines calibrated to look for anything outside of the "norms" of the typical passenger. Anything that could be used to hide something or creates additional "layers" may be enough to result in an alarm and a patdown procedure. This is included on the list of items that you are typically asked to remove. Empty the pockets, remove the belt and jackets, necklaces, etc. For some people their body shape itself or their posture may be enough. In the end the machine determines the need for the patdown, if the machine doesn't alarm (or something in their bags) they are cleared.
Thumb cuffs do show up, as do regular handcuffs. I recently observed a passenger complaining that he was being denied simple pull-ties. They just happened to be pre-formed into double loops like those used by law enforcement as flex-cuffs. Common sense again.
Generally you are seeing just a small portion of what is going on, and may not always realize what the full procedure is or why it is happening. While there are mistakes and stupid events in all areas of life, most of the procedures at the security points are thought out and do make sense if you see them in context. The folks on the other side of the table do not always have time to explain them (and some should not be explained), but 99 times out of 100 they are following a procedure that has a basis behind it. For the other 1% (hopefully less) they will eventually be found out and held accountable.
The water you purchase on the other side of the security checkpoint has already gone through testing and been cleared. It takes a little while, but is done (depending on the size of the airport) in a different area where time and throughput of the passengers is not an issue. If it has not been cleared it does not board. So if you are at a location that does not have the capacity to clear the liquids for purchase they are denied.
There are different programs that go by different names, all intended to speed up the boarding process. Pre-check, Global Traveler, etc. These involve background investigations etc and if you are approved you can be granted different procedures designed to speed up your time through the checkpoint. Keep you shoes on etc. In some cases, on some routes deemed lower hazard etc the airline can submit some traveler names without their knowledge (consent is given when you purchase the ticket) and a criminal records check etc may be done before you ever arrive to the airport. In these cases, if all security checks are met you may be granted the privileges without having officially entered the program. You then are told to keep your shoes on etc.
Blond, Caucasian, etc has nothing to do with any selection process. Much more likely is the clothing or physical stature of your spouse. As you pass through the checkpoint you are going through a number of machines calibrated to look for anything outside of the "norms" of the typical passenger. Anything that could be used to hide something or creates additional "layers" may be enough to result in an alarm and a patdown procedure. This is included on the list of items that you are typically asked to remove. Empty the pockets, remove the belt and jackets, necklaces, etc. For some people their body shape itself or their posture may be enough. In the end the machine determines the need for the patdown, if the machine doesn't alarm (or something in their bags) they are cleared.
Thumb cuffs do show up, as do regular handcuffs. I recently observed a passenger complaining that he was being denied simple pull-ties. They just happened to be pre-formed into double loops like those used by law enforcement as flex-cuffs. Common sense again.
Generally you are seeing just a small portion of what is going on, and may not always realize what the full procedure is or why it is happening. While there are mistakes and stupid events in all areas of life, most of the procedures at the security points are thought out and do make sense if you see them in context. The folks on the other side of the table do not always have time to explain them (and some should not be explained), but 99 times out of 100 they are following a procedure that has a basis behind it. For the other 1% (hopefully less) they will eventually be found out and held accountable.
sksvlad
Well-Known Member
Just trying to pour a bit more oil into the fire of "common sense" discussion http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article203903054.html
In their defence
That ‘charm’ is about the right size for a 2mm pinfire gun, these were quite popular as souvenirs about 30-40 years ago. I suspect there are a lot of users of this site who don’t know what pinfire is, the chances of any of the Airport Security staff knowing what pinfire is, is negligible. Hence, one can understand the blanket ban.
However, for six months I worked ‘Airside’ at a major London Airport. Every time I went ‘Airside’ I was subjected to exactly the same security checks as passengers. My uniform shoes have ¼ steel heals, so every time I went through the arch, the alarm would sound. I would be challenged, ‘wanded’, asked to remove my shoes, which were then put on conveyor for fluoroscope examination. After as few days it was beginning to get a bit tedious and I was going to have to buy a new pair of shoes. Then one day, just as I was asked to remove my shoes, a colleague told the ‘wander’ the shoes were required for my duty. These were magic words, and the ‘wander’ apologised and let me through. The colleague then explained to me that the security staff were not permitted to search items that were required by the holder to perform their duties. The list of such items was endless, but included the massive pouches she wore on her belt.
I had plenty of opportunity to witness Airport Security – I wasn’t impressed.
TimG
That ‘charm’ is about the right size for a 2mm pinfire gun, these were quite popular as souvenirs about 30-40 years ago. I suspect there are a lot of users of this site who don’t know what pinfire is, the chances of any of the Airport Security staff knowing what pinfire is, is negligible. Hence, one can understand the blanket ban.
However, for six months I worked ‘Airside’ at a major London Airport. Every time I went ‘Airside’ I was subjected to exactly the same security checks as passengers. My uniform shoes have ¼ steel heals, so every time I went through the arch, the alarm would sound. I would be challenged, ‘wanded’, asked to remove my shoes, which were then put on conveyor for fluoroscope examination. After as few days it was beginning to get a bit tedious and I was going to have to buy a new pair of shoes. Then one day, just as I was asked to remove my shoes, a colleague told the ‘wander’ the shoes were required for my duty. These were magic words, and the ‘wander’ apologised and let me through. The colleague then explained to me that the security staff were not permitted to search items that were required by the holder to perform their duties. The list of such items was endless, but included the massive pouches she wore on her belt.
I had plenty of opportunity to witness Airport Security – I wasn’t impressed.
TimG
U
US Military Guy
Guest
Looks absolutely devastating to me.
I have one round of ammo for it. I can't even begin to imagine the damage I could do with it.
My reference was post the machine screening /conveyor belt process, where by "random" selection - ie performed by people not machines nor any pre-documentation checks*. Here people are singled out for explosive substance residue testing - a swab is wiped inside the carry on cabin luggage or on your clothes etc and then analysed.
*This explosive testing analysis is performed at both domestic and international terminals - the difference being that non ticket holders can access the domestic departure lounges (family /friends etc), hence no pre-documentation checks can be done. Further the process is far from random as the Border Protection /airport security (or whatever that want to call themselves) would have been given "profile" training - and since the assumption and focus seems to be on "middle eastern" types (hum, not quite sure why :tinysmile_twink_t2
, then the random "Caucasian" (Blond) would be part of the process to avoid potential negative feedback or deemed bias. [Strangely enough, this was confirmed by a very reliable source] BTW - Lucky I don't do that job as I would be "randomly" selecting every attractive female passing through!!! :tongue:
Last edited:
Nah, you just "fit" their standard "watch out for this bugger" profile!:bigsmile: