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4.5” Naval projectile

Trenchfoot

Trenchfoot

Member
Premium Member
Hi all,

I’m trying to find a 4.5 inch naval projectile to fit a 1976 mk 3-5 Naval case. I missed my chance at a nice star projectile for it, gave up on collecting, came back and now I’m kicking myself for not buying it... always the way.

Does anyone have, or know of, a projectile that is for sale? A full round is probably out of my price range at the moment, but would also be considered. H.E, Illumination? Fired... I’m not fussy as long as it’s in fair condition.

Thanks for your help, Ian (Trenchy).
 
not sure what a suitable shell would be, I have an HE with 3 grooves below the (fired) driving band. and practice plain below band that is for the SL case.
 
It’s a little outside my knowledge in all honesty. I know they had H.E., Illumination and practice rounds, but specific types etc? That would take an expert here. At present, I’d happily settle for something to “top the brass”.

I’ll grab a picture of the case and headstamp markings later. I’d imagine that will help narrow it down.
 
If the 4.5 projectile has 3 grooves below the driving band, then it is for the fixed Mk8 round.
 
Hi Hope to be able to help you
1 The 3 to 5 gun was (SL) Separate Load

2 Types of Shell HE,Star,Drill ,Practice ,(REI) ,(REJ) where used to Jam Radar on incoming Guided Weapons

Hope this info helps

Steve Ex RNAD Trecwn
 
Tanks guys, I’m getting to know these a little better now.

My issue seems to be finding a projectile for my case. I bought the case years ago for my father. He was RN (Chief P.O. HMS St BridesBay, DV9), meaning to complete it with a star projectile and fuse. Sadly, I’m still looking.

I meant to find him a correct period round also, but that’s another story.

Trying to include a photo photo of the case and it’s headstamp.... wish me luck.

so as this is marked up as for the Mk 3 - 5 guns, it’s for a separate load? Anyone have photos of the correct projectiles so I now exactly what to look for?



210786D1-64E0-4B1A-9D46-679E7003D01A.jpg

2018-04-18 18.18.21.jpg
 
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Maybe Radioman1 can clarify this, but I believe the 4.5" projectile with cannelure was common to both QF fixed and Separate (the later variants). 'Explosion' have a carousel for 4.5" QF Separate (in the reserve collection) and the projectiles have a cannelure, which I thought was an error in their display, but I'm sure someone on this forum stated that when they went to QF separate they didn't bother to cancel the cannelure.

TimG
 
Actually, does anyone have photos of the ammunition for the QF 4 inch Mk XVI as used on the Brides Bay (Frigate) during her time in Korea?

This is is a round I would love to find.
 
Trenchfoot said:
Tanks guys, I’m getting to know these a little better now.

My issue seems to be finding a projectile for my case. I bought the case years ago for my father. He was RN (Chief P.O. HMS St BridesBay, DV9), meaning to complete it with a star projectile and fuse. Sadly, I’m still looking.

I meant to find him a correct period round also, but that’s another story.


Trying to include a photo photo of the case and it’s headstamp.... wish me luck.

so as this is marked up as for the Mk 3 - 5 guns, it’s for a separate load? Anyone have photos of the correct projectiles so I now exactly what to look for?



View attachment 142441

View attachment 142440
Click to expand...

There were earlier 4.5" fixed rounds but these guns were later supplied with the separate cartridge/projectile load. The case for the fixed round had a parallel neck in front of the tapered shoulder, this part of the case was left off later rounds to keep the overall length of a cartridge/projectile the same. The two types may have been interchangeable for a while until old stocks were used up. On HMS Eagle in 1964-66, I worked on the 4.5" twin batteries. All of our ammunition was the separate cartridge/projectile type but the old maintenance handbooks for the guns showed fixed ammunition and a different fuze setter.

On the fired case shown above the grooves at the mouth are rolled in the form of a spiral. On an unfired case this part of the case is parallel sided so the rolled spiral forms a screw thread into which the white metal (or tin?) closing cap was screwed. On a case for the Mark 8 gun the grooves are crimp cannelures and not in the form of spiral. in 1965 we were still occasionally shooting WW2 projectiles with later cartridges. I only met up with projectiles with a single crimp cannelure although it no longer served any purpose.
The fixed round must have been a real handful on a ship in a seaway, the projectile was 55 pounds and 30-odd pounds of cartridge added to that. The mark 8 projectile is only about 35 pounds I believe and most of the ammunition handling is by machinery.

gravelbelly
 
Beautiful rounds Andy. I’m trying to find one, but I get the impression it may be difficult. Dad would have loved to see one. Hanks for the photos.

Fantastic information Gravelbelly. Many thanks. I can’t get over how hard it’s become to find a 4.5” projectile.
 
I almost got excited for a moment. Found the following on a Facebook ammo page. But after seeing Andy’s photo of the 4” round, I think the only part that may be right is the case.

thoughts? Seller asking £130 says it’s a relic 4” WW2 naval.

1FE7DF5A-2B16-4035-8970-70085FB893F3.jpeg8D6DC392-0DB9-42C4-A5BF-2824CE21A1B5.jpegD323581C-D762-4D5E-ACE7-01029EF10EFB.jpeg
 
Hi The weight of a MK 8 shell is 46 lbs or 21 KG

The weight of the MK 3 to 5 SL Shell is 55 lbs or 24 KG

Hope this info helps

Steve
 
well the fuze shown in the ? 4in shell is a no. 2?? if my memory is correct as it has the thread for a screw on cover and is a Naval design. the case is very poor and they are not that rare, the shell has heavy corrosion and the fuze may not be easily removable. £130 seems too much to me it would not be worth much more if in good condition. But see what others say.
 
I didn’t go for it. I’ll keep my eyes open for a decent one if possible. A 4 inch QF one side of the fire and a 4.5 inch the other. I’d be a happy chappie.

I’m still hunting for the elusive 4.5” projectile. If anyone comes across a 4.5” star or H.E. Round, please inbox me. Or a complete round? I’ll keep looking.

I must also give my thanks to everyone here that has helped me so far. I’ve learnt a lot about the 4.5.

Next thread topic is moving onto slightly smaller rounds and restoration :)
 
Hi 2pounder,

I’ve tried to reply to your message a couple of times, but I don’t think your getting them. Can you let me know here, if not received, I will drop my email here later.

Cheers,

ian
 
just for info here are my two 4.5in shells, the fuzes do screw fully home and are unused.R0011243.JPG
 
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