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Nordenfelt round ?

nellerhorner11

Active Member
Hello , are these Nordenfelt rounds ? They are 1 inch rounds and the total length of the cartridge is 5.75 inches . the headstamp is 'B C I ' .Thanks for any help. 009.JPG011.JPG
 
1 inch Aiming Rifle - it used the same case dimensions as the Nordenfelt, but with different loadings.

Hi again Tony .. the reason I thought it was a Nordenfelt even though it has a solid lead projectile, is because of the reference in 'The History and Development of Small arms Ammunition” Vol. 2, by George Hoyem ' which illustrates one with a solid lead projectile ....is this something different to what I have , or is his info inaccurate , this being an oldish book ?
 
Thanks Tony , may I ask what an aiming rifle was please ?

A small gun which is attached to a large gun (or sometimes mounted inside the barrel) for cheap firing practice - large artillery ammunition being very expensive. Also known as sub-calibre systems. The 1 inch was in British service for a very long time: from the 19th century to WW2.

There is a Nordenfelt practice round with a lead bullet (of different shape) but the main reason I identified yours as an aiming rifle round was the headstamp, which appears in Labbett's book as an example of an aiming rifle headstamp.
 
That is really useful info Tony , thanks so much for taking the time to help out . I collect Victorian militaria relating to the Boer, Zulu and Sudan Wars so was hoping this might have been a 'proper' Nordenfelt . Not to worry , but appreciate your input .
 
Hi, Nordenfelt cases are normally date stamped, ie,1888, and are much scarcer. Cheers Tig.
 
Thanks Tony , may I ask what an aiming rifle was please ?

Aiming Rifles were a development of the Aiming tube concept.

The first aiming tubes were developed by Mr Morris in the early 1880's. His system was essentially comprised of a rifled tube inserted into a gun barrel which could then be loaded with 'miniature ammunition' in turn. Combined with a system of patented targets at certain ranges, the overall effect was to allow you to learn to shoot accurately at certain ranges for a fraction of the cost of normal practice. Both the Royal Navy and British Army committed to using the tubes; although they had a habit of ignoring his patented targets and utilising ones that were built/developed locally. The result was something of an ongoing correspondence with the War Office throughout the second half of the 1880's; where Mr Morris pleaded he was making virtually no profit, as his tubes and ammunition had very little margin and he'd intended to make money on the targets.

As the Quick Firing (Q.F. gun) was being introduced from 1888 onwards, there was a desire in the Royal Navy to have a similar system by which to practise shooting large guns without wasting valuable ammunition. In 1889 the Royal Navy requested the Morris Co. to develop a form of 1-inch rifle which could be attached to the barrel of the main gun and then fired using the standard electric firing mechanism of the main gun. As with the earlier aiming tube, the idea was that by firing the attached 1-inch gun, you'd be able to learn how to shoot the larger gun at the appropriate ranges quickly, cheaply and efficiently.

Armstrong waded into the field in the mid-1890's with their own aiming tubes/rifles however, which led to something of a legal kerfuffle. The original Morris patents weren't great, and Morris himself died shortly beforehand.
 

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Elswick 1" aiming rifle

The 1" Elswick Aiming Rifle for large naval guns.
 

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This is the gun mechanism that fits into a larger gun breech.
Not my image so credit to original owner
 

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i believe this is the aiming rifle pic from internet
 

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Judging by the Gras Bayonet fireplace set nearby, it's likely in some ones basement/collection , not an institution.
Though there must be a few around being so widely used.
 
Thanks Tony, next time the sun shines in Cornwall (and it's warm!), I'll pay a visit. Trevor
 
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