British victorian era 1 inch nordenfelt and aiming projectiles

[Wgreen]

Hi to all thought I would post pics of the nordenfelt 1 inch anti torpedo boat gun alongside the two main mks of 1 inch aiming projectiles to make it easy to see the differences,the nordenfelt is a thin brass covered steel bullet the brass designed to grip the rifling of the multi-barrell gun,the bottom 1 inch aiming gun projectile is solid lead and was originally used with the first black powder version of the aiming cartridges when we started to use cordite it was thought that the greater heat and pressure would damage the base of the solid lead bullet so they changed the projectiles design by incorporating a copper base which comes up the side by about a quarter of an inch also the overall shape was made more aerodynamic this design did not last very long as they soon realised the extra manufacturing and expense of the copper base was unnecessary and reverted back to the solid lead bullet for later mks the aiming gun cartridges are the same as the nordenfelt in size and over all shape but with a different head stamp and minus the 3 stab indents which secure the bullet in place

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[Tony Williams]

Just to add a bit of information from Labbett: Nordenfelt projectiles were not all brass-covered steel, there was a "dummy drill" round, tinned all over, which had a lead bullet with a cavity in the base filled with a wooden plug.

Also, the Nordenfelt practice round was cast iron rather than steel (but still had the brass covering).

 

[Wgreen]

Hi thanks for the extra info does anyone have a nordenfelt dummy drill round that they could post pics of I was aware of them but have never seen one in 25 yrs of collecting ,I thought a post with the 1 inch projectiles grouped together would be helpful as I noticed quite a few questions regarding aiming/nordenfelt bullets,I also believe there was a 1 inch Gatling gun bullet any extra info or pics is always helpful

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[Tony Williams]

This is a photo of part of the ECRA display at last year's Northern Shooting Fair. The one underneath shows a twin barrel version of the 1 inch Nordenfelt, part of the same display. I can't offhand see one of the tinned dummy/drill rounds, though!

 

[sgdbdr]

More info in those two books :

Handbook of the 1 inch 4-Barrel Nordenfelt gun 1889
Handbook of the 1 inch 4-Barrel Nordenfelt gun 1886

available here : http://search.slv.vic.gov.au/primo_library/libweb/action/search.do?vid=MAIN

 

[TimG]

I recognize some of those rounds!

TimG

 

[2pounder]

Peter also referred to the copper coated steel projectiles and the copper gas check on the lead bullets for aiming rifles were for cordite propellant ( cases Marked with C ) to allow higher velocities and prevent leading in the bores. C cases are stabbed and crimped to prevent the bullet pushing back into the case. From what I have read I believe all cordite rounds had gas check bullets.

 

[ron3350]

In Australia I find a few MkV or V1 type projectiles in plain no head stamped cases. Usually emptied of powder.
Can anyone confirm if these are all UMC, USA or did a UK maker use no headstamps? Fits into this thread.

 

[TimG]

The projectile marked "Screw secured base" isn't such, thought to be early stages of an experimental, filled projectile.

TimG

 

[Bonnex]

Herewith a couple of drawings showing Aiming Rifle cartridges dating from the early 1920s. I hope they are of interest.

 

[Ben Turnbull]

The Nordenfelt 1-inch gun was introduced in the midst of the Russian invasion scare of 1878-9. Concerned that the light Russian torpedo boats would be able to whizz in and damage their larger warships before they could respond (the guns of which could only fire once every few minutes), the Admiralty rushed the introduction of the Nordenfelt 1-inch (purchased from Temple & Co.) as a way of dealing with any such potential threat. The 1-inch round was consequently designed to be heavy enough to pierce the decking of the lighter torpedo boats then in production. There was much kerfuffle with the War Office over the matter; as they felt that the gun and ammunition cost too much, and due to the system then in place, the costs of supplying the items fell on them.The War Office ended up pirating Nordenfelt's patented ammunition design and producing it in the Ordnance Factories; for which Nordenfelt was much later awarded a sum as compensation by the Ordnance Council.

The aiming rounds introduced by Morris (through his partnership with Kynoch) a decade or so later were quite the opposite in conception. Designed to be cheap and cheerful, they existed for practice firing from custom designed aiming rifles. They weren't intended to penetrate anything, and were deliberately miniaturised so as to save on cost.

One is designed to crack open boats, the other for target practice. The difference is as you see in the photographs. Amusingly, despite being produced up to 1887, the Nordenfelt 1-inch was actually considered obsolete by 1884 due to new tougher torpedo boats.

 

[Mozgolom]

russian made lead covered 1 inch