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The mysterious 8 inch projectile from america....

frijoles108

Well-Known Member
Hello again guys,
This will be the first amongst a few other posts in upcoming days of a few large calibre items i just acquired! The first up to bat is a 8 inch projectile. Let me first go through what I know and what I have found out.
- It is 100 percent american as it has the flaming bomb symbol stamped below the makers mark
- the makers mark is the initials USCIP&F CO. I researched this and it appears to be the United States Cast Iron Pipe and Foundry Company. You can see the photo of these initials with the flaming bomb underneath it where I had to remove some of the paint someone threw on it a long time ago to look nice, as they had done so with the other ones i got in this grouping.
That is all I know for now. I also have included photos of the enormous booster of fuze that screws into the projectile, and it has no marks on it. I did also see what appears to be some lot numbers underneath the thick paint should i remove the paint there also to see if there is a date code hidden in there? Im trying to figure out the era of this projectile. The design of it seems to indicate to me ww1 era as it doesn't seem to have the more streamline measures that were taken in american designs of larger calibres by that era, although I would love your input. I also did research on the company related to ammo production and it only mentions that it was retooled for production during ww2, but i can't find anything to indicate whether or not it was helping with the war effort in ww1, as the company was founded in 1899.
Regards!
Ben
ps the white stuff on the side of the shell is quick dry oil
 

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You need one photo shot perpendicular to the side that shows the profile top to bottom, dimensions like thread diameter of the booster, the length of the body, distance base to rotating band, height of rotating band, and a close up photo of the rotating band profile. Isometric views of projectiles (looking down an an angle) are impossible to analyze. Vintage of projectiles are determined from rotating band design among other things.

What is the projectile to the left of it?
 
Ok I'll get the new photos, I'll open new threads about other projectiles soon to prevent tons of confusion of what we are discussing. When you say thread diameter are u referring to diameter inside of the projectiles top?
You need one photo shot perpendicular to the side that shows the profile top to bottom, dimensions like thread diameter of the booster, the length of the body, distance base to rotating band, height of rotating band, and a close up photo of the rotating band profile. Isometric views of projectiles (looking down an an angle) are impossible to analyze. Vintage of projectiles are determined from rotating band design among other things.

What is the projectile to the left of it?

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Ok so from bottom of projectile to bottom of drive band it is about 22mm, the height of drive band is about 55mm. Height of projectile is about 25 1/8 inches tall. Sorry I has to use a mm dia caliper and a inches tape measure. I tried to get a better profile picture of both projectile and rotating band.
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Inner diameter of booster is about 54mm. Also included pic of booster when inside projectile
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It would help to have the outside thread diameter of the booster and the threads per inch, and the inside thread diameter of the booster and threads per inch. Also, the outside diameter of the top of the projectile where the booster screws in.

The projectile is a lower velocity than the WWII U.S. Navy 8 inch by the design of the rotating band, but it has the radius of ogive of a projectile more modern than WWI.

Does it have a base plug that screws into the base, where a base fuze could be attached?
 
Hey hazord I looked on bottom it is smooth and no marks from what I could see. Also here is the thread diameters I think? I honestly had to look it up on how to do that. I have them in inches and mm in photos for u if u read the numbers on dia caliper
It would help to have the outside thread diameter of the booster and the threads per inch, and the inside thread diameter of the booster and threads per inch. Also, the outside diameter of the top of the projectile where the booster screws in.

The projectile is a lower velocity than the WWII U.S. Navy 8 inch by the design of the rotating band, but it has the radius of ogive of a projectile more modern than WWI.

Does it have a base plug that screws into the base, where a base fuze could be attached?
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Also while searching I thought it looked somewhat similar to the projectile we made for the British 8 inch gun?
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Ok I also asked the previous owner and he had it identified as a mk1a1 8 inch,but he can't remember anything else about what it was. I couldn't find any projectiles under that name when I searched it

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The paint and markings on your piece look suspiciously like those used on museum pieces out of Picatinny, Aberdeen and Sill. These markings were typical for many of the military museums some years back. Noting the recent incidents of theft from the Ft. Lee area - discussed here a couple of weeks ago, you might want to be particularly careful of the pedigree any pieces like this that you pick up, lest someone wants them back. I believe Ft. Lee is also where the Aberdeen/Picatinny pieces went for storage when Aberdeen shut down. I've heard from some persons dumping pieces that they purchased not long ago, in my opinion this is not a good time to buy.
 
The paint and markings on your piece look suspiciously like those used on museum pieces out of Picatinny, Aberdeen and Sill. These markings were typical for many of the military museums some years back. Noting the recent incidents of theft from the Ft. Lee area - discussed here a couple of weeks ago, you might want to be particularly careful of the pedigree any pieces like this that you pick up, lest someone wants them back. I believe Ft. Lee is also where the Aberdeen/Picatinny pieces went for storage when Aberdeen shut down. I've heard from some persons dumping pieces that they purchased not long ago, in my opinion this is not a good time to buy.
These ones are in my possession and the previous owner had them for many years before me, so not possibly the same ones taken weeks ago

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Yes, I doubt that they came from the Ft. Lee group, though it is hard to say for certain. But theft from the military museums remains a major problem, and your rounds bear a strong resemblance in the way that they are marked. Not making accusations, just suggesting caution and responsibility to all those who may be tempted by similar "finds".

Picatinny museum was shut down around the late 1990s, early 2000 or so. Their holdings were eventually merged with Aberdeen's, which was also shut down around the time of the second Gulf War (Bush junior). All items eventually ended up in the Ft. Lee area. It was around this time that I started getting emails from fellow collectors about some great new finds that they had purchased. In two cases specifically I explained to them that they had purchased stolen items. Not accusing, just identifying. They angrily objected, I then showed them photos I had taken years earlier from Picatinny of the same items. You could match the photos like a fingerprint - the same scratch, missing paint flecks, run in the paint, dents and stamps in the body. One of the individuals never spoke to me again following that.

Items continue to trickle out. The latest incident (we know of) is also from Ft. Lee, but most of the items so far identified seem to be high tech, new pieces. This doesn't change what has already happened.

I'm attaching a few pictures typical of the type of marking I am talking about, I think you'll see what I mean. These are from photos taken of the Aberdeen collection, from one of the posts I did in 2014 or so.

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Can we keep this to pm please I would rather have my post be focused on identifying my items.

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Per your PM:
Nothing has been said that is intended to place you in a bad light, the posts were specifically worded to avoid that. At the same time, threads on BOCN rarely go in the single direction expected by those starting them. That has always been one of the strengths of this forum. Questions about live items, stolen items, legality of possession and sales in different countries - all are the norm for the forum. Nobody gets to anticipate or dictate the direction of the discussion, as long as it is presented in a reasonable, considerate manner. Take the comments as they are presented, no more, no less. It is a subject that deserves attention, your post brought it to the light.
 
A subject that needed attention in another post indeed. Thanks for reading my kind requests via pm aloud

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Anyone who has been paying attention to the recent posts on the thefts of military training and museum pieces, that can put two and two together could guess what the content of your private PM would contain. It's no secret. We all have our feet put to the fire when anyone questions our legal ownership of anything in our collection. The first question anyone asks is "Where did you get that?" Followed by "Is it loaded?"

I've been told multiple times that BOCN is watched very closely by government types that look for certain things of a sensitive nature. They can be sensitive for a number of reasons like stolen, classified, current technology, dangerous, foreign, etc.

The whole problem with an open forum like BOCN, fakebook, or any other social media is the prideful desire to post photos of your "unobtainium" to make everyone envious. It doesn't matter if it is an EXCALIBUR projectile, or a chest full of gold coins. Post info of found money and the IRS, State, law enforcement at a minimum will contact you, all with their hand out.

Discretion and careful thought are required before posting photos of sensitive things. When the photo of the EXCALIBUR was posted, I questioned showing the serial number of such a high-tech item. If you show photos of sensitive items, those items need to be "sterilized". The EXCALIBUR couldn't be sterilized enough as it is current classified technology. I'm surprised that it hadn't already been stolen by the Chinese and was already being reverse-engineered.

When one is thinking of posting photos, they need to ask themselves three questions. Does this need to be posted? Does this need to be posted by me? Does this need to be posted by me now? There are thousands of items out there in private collections that you will never see photos of on an open forum. Why? Fear and discretion.

What is the one statement you hear in any drama in reference to possession of something? "Somebody talked!" Well, a picture is worth a thousand words.

I would never post a photo of my Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 Watt Range, no matter how proud I am of it. Oops, was I talking out loud?
 

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Anyone who has been paying attention to the recent posts on the thefts of military training and museum pieces, that can put two and two together could guess what the content of your private PM would contain. It's no secret. We all have our feet put to the fire when anyone questions our legal ownership of anything in our collection. The first question anyone asks is "Where did you get that?" Followed by "Is it loaded?"

I've been told multiple times that BOCN is watched very closely by government types that look for certain things of a sensitive nature. They can be sensitive for a number of reasons like stolen, classified, current technology, dangerous, foreign, etc.

The whole problem with an open forum like BOCN, fakebook, or any other social media is the prideful desire to post photos of your "unobtainium" to make everyone envious. It doesn't matter if it is an EXCALIBUR projectile, or a chest full of gold coins. Post info of found money and the IRS, State, law enforcement at a minimum will contact you, all with their hand out.

Discretion and careful thought are required before posting photos of sensitive things. When the photo of the EXCALIBUR was posted, I questioned showing the serial number of such a high-tech item. If you show photos of sensitive items, those items need to be "sterilized". The EXCALIBUR couldn't be sterilized enough as it is current classified technology. I'm surprised that it hadn't already been stolen by the Chinese and was already being reverse-engineered.

When one is thinking of posting photos, they need to ask themselves three questions. Does this need to be posted? Does this need to be posted by me? Does this need to be posted by me now? There are thousands of items out there in private collections that you will never see photos of on an open forum. Why? Fear and discretion.

What is the one statement you hear in any drama in reference to possession of something? "Somebody talked!" Well, a picture is worth a thousand words.

I would never post a photo of my Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 Watt Range, no matter how proud I am of it. Oops, was I talking out loud?
Indeed and I am not concerned at all that these are stolen. I did my research and communicated with multiple people of legitimate positions to confirm they are not and if they were, which they are not, I would have no problem cooperating if the appropriate proof was presented.

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