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  1. #1
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    105mm M456A1 Heat round.

    I have this one in the pipeline, and after consulting the TM found out this is the earlier HEAT round, 1970s. I wanted to fill the gap in my 105 tank shells, I have the HEP, the M737, the dart round ( APFSDS), and saw this. I have noticed in the world of " darts and cans" anti tank rounds the " cans" seem to be scarcer than the "darts". This one: black projectile swaged into the case. The black projo ink marked in white, Empty. Engraved, 105MM, M456A1, about 50 lbs. Am I correct in believing cans are more scarce than darts? The other 105mm dart and penetrator I have are colored blue, I believe this to be an empty loaded M456 Heat, used for loading, training purposes. Picture is lifted off the web, detailed pics to follow.
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    Last edited by 917601; 22nd May 2018 at 05:13 PM.

  2. #2
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    I've never heard of a HEAT projo referred to as a "can". In fact, "Can" would be a much more appropriate name for a non-fuzed Apers projo like a can full of flechettes or slugs. HEAT projos logically would be more rare than Dart projos because of the explosive component that needs to be removed or missing. Some nations are still using 105mm Guns, and so there will continue to be many more darts available, as they don't require inerting other than tracer removal. The hardest darts to find would be the staballoy (depleted uranium), with the light-weight sabots. The hardest HEAT projos to find are the most modern with the shoulder switch and high-tech copper cones. They were first issued as direct fire rounds for the 105 howitzer.
    ___HAZ/
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  4. #3
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    Be sure you are paying for an actual projectile and not a TASO rubber projectile. Some of them can appear very realistic till you look closely. The practice versions used to be plentiful, the emptied HE marked ones John refers to were/are pretty hard to find. The Army released some of them to a scrapyard in Fontana a few years back, that didn't end well.
    All dug or live ordnance shown in my posts is under EOD control and has been or will be dealt with accordingly by EOD personnel

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by US-Subs View Post
    Be sure you are paying for an actual projectile and not a TASO rubber projectile. Some of them can appear very realistic till you look closely. The practice versions used to be plentiful, the emptied HE marked ones John refers to were/are pretty hard to find. The Army released some of them to a scrapyard in Fontana a few years back, that didn't end well.
    Thanks for the reply and information. I will post more detailed pictures when in hand, this pic is what I have for now. What happened at Fontana?
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    Last edited by 917601; 23rd May 2018 at 10:12 PM.

  6. #5
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    Scrapyard in Fontana CA (Dicks Auto Works) bought 5000 tons of ordnance scrap from the government in 1996, came from clearance work at 29 Palms, Ft. Irwin and China Lake. It was delivered in a series of shipments, a few weeks later while breaking down mixed metals there was a detonation with one fatality. They had a large number of practice 105mm HEAT, aluminum and steel components. Their procedure was to throw it in the vise, heat it up with a torch and wrench it apart. Turns out that live rounds really don't like the heating part. I was the Quality Control officer for the UXO company that was called in to recertify all items on the site, over 100 significant live items were identified, including a 500lb bomb, 155mm, etc. The Quality Control officer for the company that had been doing the original work out of Ft. Irwin was subsequently arrested for some sort of negligent homicide charge, not sure how it ended up. Would have been tough to prove, but I suppose to a normal jury they might have bought it. From what we could see the charges had merit. We took over the Ft. Irwin clearance contract after that, they had another live 105 HEAT in their training aids.

    The 500lb bomb was the real winner. Procedure by the scrapyard was to take the MK series practice bombs and torch cut them up one side and down the other, hit them a couple of times with a sledge hammer to pop it apart, then roll the concrete fill out for landfill material. The live bomb (MK82 500lb) was still marked, yellow on green. They had started cutting on one side and torched down to about 18-inches from the nose, right through the yellow nose band. You could see where the fill had started to burn, scorching the outside of the bomb, then snuffed itself out without enough oxygen when they stopped cutting. Somebody got very lucky.

    I did a quick google search on the incident, came up with this article: http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jul/06/news/mn-1222 There was no doubt in our minds at the time that he was guilty as hell of negligence and not doing his job, but it was also considered a slippery slope, in that by an outsider any accident could be considered much the same, possibly holding EOD and UXO personnel to impossible standards.
    All dug or live ordnance shown in my posts is under EOD control and has been or will be dealt with accordingly by EOD personnel

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to US-Subs For This Useful Post:

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  8. #6
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    The M456 A1 Heat round arrived. One word, pristine. The projectile is firmly crimped in place, and surprise, it is the full M456 projectile. The primer is missing and you can look into the primer hole and see the fins. Markings: case head stamp, " 105mm M148A1B1. 1976 NOR-18-8"
    Case markings: Large white "Empty", two QC ink stamps, and faint red ink mark " X-RAYED". Projectile: "12" in a circle. An " Arrow", and lastly " CGO 3-38 1975 105MM M456 A1". I wish I could remove the projectile but will not want to ruin the crimp.
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    Last edited by 917601; 29th May 2018 at 08:35 PM.

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    Does it have a lot number?
    All dug or live ordnance shown in my posts is under EOD control and has been or will be dealt with accordingly by EOD personnel

  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by US-Subs View Post
    Does it have a lot number?
    I double checked everything, and I have mentioned all markings in post number six. No " Lot" anywhere, maybe the " CGO" is the lot? I have a question, why would it be inked X-rayed? I assumed it was done at some point to double check the projectile, which is crimped in place. I did notice a very slight " sliver" of blue color near the upper part of the " can" edge, maybe repainted and inked empty at some time?
    Last edited by 917601; 30th May 2018 at 09:55 PM.

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    CGO is Chamberlain, the projectile manufacturer, NOR is the case manufacturer, Norris Industries in Vernon California. The 8 sided ink stamp at the bottom of the case sidewall is the acceptance stamp for the case.

    Chamberlain was a big competitor for Norris when I was working at Norris, at least for projectiles. The projectile was made in 75, right at the end of Nam. I was told that during Vietnam, the government bought everything, even the scrap components. Everyone was running at full capacity.
    Last edited by HAZORD; 31st May 2018 at 04:16 AM.
    ___HAZ/
    _____/ORD Hazardous Ordnance Recognition
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