WW1 Shrapnel Shell, German?.

[Vasco Da Gama]

I came across the pictured 75mm shrapnel shell and bought it thinking it was for the early 1900s Krupp field gun used by many nations, case length 75x278. However, on giving it a clean the fuze is different to those I have come across before and the overall projectile is longer than others I have for the Krupp gun (pictured against a red projectile which I think conforms to the standard pattern). I would appreciate the view of the experts in order to marry it up with the correct case. Overall length is 295mm, base diameter is 74mm. The fuze is graduated from 2 to 80 in increments of 2. Very faint on the top section of the fuze may be Geb, which I have tried to capture in the photos (German for mountain?) otherwise no markings on the fuze or shell body. Over to you!

 

[Gspragge]

When I see a band like that I tend to think Austrian ?

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Thanks Gordon, I did consider the 75mm M15 mountain gun, developed by Austria and also used by German troops in WW1. However the length does not match any Projectile I have records for, they range in size from 207mm to 310mm long.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

I would say a ww1 german use (I think marking on fuze is "Geb").
I know it as 7.5cm Geb.K 15 schrapnell.
French ww1 documentation mentions a mountain Skoda gun.

Regards

french ww1 doc :



german ww2 documentation :

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Great work Minenaz, as usual! My documentation referred to the original Austrian projectiles for the M15 mountain gun. Your documentation indicates the German Army had slightly different projectiles. The mention of a Geb marking is for me conclusive, I do have German made cases for the M15 Skoda mountain gun, I now have a projectile to sit in one. Many thanks.

 

[Alpini]

I am unsure if your shell + fuze adapter / fuze are belonging together.

Is it possible to unsrew the fuze from the ring?
Can we see a picture of the fuze bottom?
Are there any markings on the shrapnel body?

 

[doctor]

Hi
Here the 7,5 Gr Skoda Shrapnel with it's brass fuse notified Geb on cap fuze (all lenght 290 mm, no more)
Yep Alpini I agree with you.

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Thanks Gents, as requested I have taken a few additional photos. The fuze is really fixed into the adapter ring, it would result in serious damage trying to remove it. Having cleaned the very base of the shrapnel body there are a couple of production stamps as shown. The adapter ring is a good fit to the body, with the threads engaging reasonably well, picture of the join included. The length of the shrapnel body is 230mm. With the adapter screwed tight and taking into account some extra space in the time rings which I don't think should be there I would offer the overall length is 292 or 293mm. Couple of pictures of the German made 75x129R cases I have for interest.

 

[Alpini]

At moment I can only tell you that your fuze is made by the "Rheinische Metallwaren und Maschinenfabrik" (Rheinmetall). I am not sure if it helps but can you take a picture of the fuze time ring's "Zero" / "Percussion" setting please.

The same 80 hm fuze was made by Krupp with different mechanics inside. And I am not sure but I think I remember also Skoda made them again with different mechanics inside.

I also know these "Geb" marked fuzes from 7,5 cm Krupp L/14 ammunition (75x118R "shouldered" case) and at least some of the fuzes were made Bulgaria. I think it was some "standardized" fuze for use in different Krupp, Skoda and Rheinmetall mountain guns.

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Many thanks Alpini, your input is always valued. I was unaware the 75x118R case even existed! Photo as requested, I think there may be a 37 on the very base ring.

 

[Alpini]

I was more interested in the lower brass ring and I see what I expected. What looks like a "y" is a cyrillic letter "у" (U) and part of the stamp "уд" for "удар" = impact. So your fuze was made by Rheinmetall for Bulgaria (due to the material combination 1917-18).

There are two types of 75x118R a straight one and one with shoulder. The last one should be for the Krupp 7,5 cm L/14 mountain gun the other one is still unknown. Since years no good Information about these guns is known.

You may have a look at this fuze from "Depotman": About which I am pretty sure it was made by Schneider for Bulgaria before the war started: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/98971-Another-Pre-WW1-Fuze-What-Is-It. It has all the same characteristics for fuze setting key, fuze mounting key and design of scale as yours.

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Many thanks Alpini, your knowledge is outstanding. The question for me is how a potentially Bulgarian WW1 item ended up in the UK. The most likely route would be being brought home as a souvenir. A forgotten part of the First World War was the British involvement in fighting Bulgarian forces during the Salonika, Balkan campaign. My understanding is British forces landed in Salonika in October 1915 and did not fully leave until 1921. At peak strength 250,000 British troops were involved alongside French, Russian and Serbian forces. I am still surprised at what turns up with a story to tell.