What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

British WW2 ?

Bellifortis

Well-Known Member
Foto from the german navy demining manual. Unidentified object found with a sabotage commando. Any idea what it is ?
regards,
Bellifortis.British WW2. - Kopie.jpg
 
Hum, difficult to say !
British incendiary (45lb) or smoke (100lb) bombs had same external shape of metal box !


Yoda
 
Hi Yoda,
the manual says it is a magnetically actuating mine, more heavy than water. They did not know how this was to be used. The shape, like an oilcan, was apparently only for camouflage. The top had the normal filling screwcap.
They surmised, at the time, that there was a lid to cover the bottom.
regards,
Bellifortis.
 
It is a sabotage device known as 'Tench'. It met a requirement for a groundmine for use in enemy controlled inland waterways. Herewith a few images, one of which shows a typical 4 gallon container used for camouflage purposes.


View attachment Tench1-Opt.pdf
 
Last edited:
Hi Bonnex,
ineresting, always something new. Why did I not hear/read anything about TENCH before. It's not even listed in Himmler's "The Foreign Sabotage Devices", only one page in the navy demining manual. Also nothing in the pertinent english literature. Do you have any detailed info about this ?
Regards,
Bellifortis.
It is a sabotage device known as 'Tench'.
 
Hi Bonnex,
ineresting, always something new. Why did I not hear/read anything about TENCH before. It's not even listed in Himmler's "The Foreign Sabotage Devices", only one page in the navy demining manual. Also nothing in the pertinent english literature. Do you have any detailed info about this ?
Regards,
Bellifortis.

I am not sure why the Himmler folk decided to leave out Tench from their weighty tome. It would seem that several nautical 'devices' were not sufficiently worthy of their interest to get a mention in the book. Perch (aligned with Tench but initiated by a countermining pistol), 'M' mine, mobile limpets and charge containers for underwater attack vessels do not feature (not in my copy anyway).

I will post some Tench material when I get the chance.
 
Hi N.,
thanks for the additional info. Were the people that gave european fish names to these devices hobby fishermen, or was there another reason for the fish-names ?
Greetings,
Bellifortis.
 
Hi N.,
its not a weighty tome, but just a very small pamphlet. The devil H. may not even have read it himself and most probably a subordinate wrote the intro for him. There always are enough underlings to do the work. Here in Germany this publication is very rare and nearly unknown. A foto here on BOCN got me onto the trail. My B&W photocopy I got by chance in an auction, because apparently nobody knew what it is. In a way its similar, but smaller, to the british "Enemy Sabotage Equipment", but looks at the subject from a different viewpoint, that of the forensic criminal case investigator. It has a look at the residue left after functioning to deduce back on the device used. I'm looking forward on being enlightened on "Perch" and "Tench" which I only remember from grandmas tasty homecooking.
regards,
Bellifortis.
I am not sure why the Himmler folk decided to leave out Tench from their weighty tome. It would seem that several nautical 'devices' were not sufficiently worthy of their interest to get a mention in the book. Perch (aligned with Tench but initiated by a countermining pistol), 'M' mine, mobile limpets and charge containers for underwater attack vessels do not feature (not in my copy anyway).

I will post some Tench material when I get the chance.
 
Hi N.,
really interesting. Do you know if there were any results, the "user" achieved, with the items delivered to him ? While I'm at it, I have a question regarding your speciality of Handgrenades. Who was the inventor of the "Bouchon"-Handgrenade-Fuze ? Meanwhile this fuze is near to universal on most new handgrenades.
regards,
Bellifortis.
 
Hi N.,
really interesting. Do you know if there were any results, the "user" achieved, with the items delivered to him ? While I'm at it, I have a question regarding your speciality of Handgrenades. Who was the inventor of the "Bouchon"-Handgrenade-Fuze ? Meanwhile this fuze is near to universal on most new handgrenades.
regards,
Bellifortis.

I don't know if the devices were actually deployed. I have not seen anything in The National Archives on the subject but I could easily have missed it.

As for grenade mechanisms there were so many devised during WW1. I suppose if it is the 'rat trap' (rotary striker) mechanism that you seek an inventor for then I would suggest that Leblanc is a good candidate. His UK Patent is GB127293 25th August 1916. I expect there are several other mechanisms and inventors worthy of consideration.
 
The "users" were most likely the SOE team (Force 133 SOE) committed to Operation Locksmith, January to March 1943. The operation did not go to plan with the charges failing to go off, and ultimately the whole team betrayed, captured and executed.

The National Archives has ADM 1/28910 if anyone is interested in extracting the file on a visit - not currently digitised.

Summaries of the operation here:

https://codenames.info/operation/locksmith/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cumberlege




Tom.
 
Strange, that the devices used, did not work. We know, from other operations, that the countermining pistol worked. The "Magnetic Firing Unit M Type B"(Is there any more detailed info on the construction of this device available ?) which had been developed for another project (Do you know which other project is meant ?), sounds like it was tested and that it worked. Thank you N. and Tom for your interesting input.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
 
Last edited:
Strange, that the devices used, did not work. We know, from other operations, that the countermining pistol worked. The "Magnetic Firing Unit M Type B"(Is there any more detailed info on the construction of this device available ?) which had been developed for another project (Do you know which other project is meant ?), sounds like it was tested and that it worked. Thank you N. and Tom for your interesting input.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
The M Unit Type B was developed for use with moored mines and it was a component in the Mine M Type R. I have handled an M Unit (see below) but I don't know what is in it. The case is Bakelite and about 12 cms long.


M Unitv4.jpg
 
Hi N.,
I have been searching the net for additional info on the british mine M type R you mentioned. I did not find anything. I'm technically intrigued about the small size (12cm !) for a inductive, magnetic system. The only example of a german WW2 system, that I have seen, was much, much larger. Does anyone here know of any publication that sheds some more light on the subject of british inductive mine-fuzes ? The post WW2 US OP also has no info on any moored inductive system.
regards,
Bellifortis.
 
Top