Unknown 12 cm shell case 1905

[Hoeksel]

I traded this case a while back with the assumption it was for the Dutch 12 cm Krupp L/12 (Krupp Model 1905 I believe) since 1) the dimensions match (128x84R140) and 2) the Dutch bought most of their shell cases in that period via Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe. However, I started doubting this.

1 - Normally Dutch army used primers are numbered, this primer is not (although it might be worn out). In this case I would expect a primer number 2.
2 - Normally Dutch used cases are often re-used and therefore show typical re-loading marks with a year and powder type.
3 - When I started doubting because of the above I noticed the primer has a letter "B" in 1 of the 3 cavities. I am not aware of ever having seen this before.
4 - The letter "B" on the primer has a strong similar look in style as the letter "B" in a rectangle as shown on the case head stamp (many Dutch cases have all kinds of markings, where some are not understood, so a "B" in rectangle did not really surprise me at first).
5 - I checked and the 12 cm Krupp L/12 was introduced in the Dutch army in 1908 while the case is dated 1905. That seems early for Dutch use, although old stock could theoretically be delivered with the Krupp guns, but I doubt it.

Because of this, I believe now the case is possibly not Dutch used. Clearly it is an export case, since it has no German acceptance marks, but for what gun and what country? Maybe anybody can shed some light and I am especially interested about the existence of other primers whit the mentioned "B" as it may be a significant clue towards my question. As a last remark, I contacted the collector I traded with and he mentioned the case was found in Poland.

 

[Yodamaster]

Look on the marking around the primer, apparently "????UNEN FABRIEK", most than probably german


Yoda

 

[Hoeksel]

Yes, it is German made as stated but intended for export (text reads Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe).

 

[Hoeksel]

I tried to investigate but not much found. Since the case dimensions match with the Dutch 12 cm L/12 artillery piece introduced in 1908, I can be sure this case fits with the 12 cm Krupp M1905. But I do not know if other Krupp guns from the around 1900 time frame used the same cases (I found Krupp M1901, M1902, M1903, M1904 .....). As for the 12 cm Krupp M1905 I found only a few countries that used them, since the case is dated 1905, I think I can exclude introduction of the gun by capturing from enemies (that would be >> 1905). The Krupp 12 cm M1905 was a so-called "off the shelve" product for export, as the German army skipped the 12 cm caliber and went directly for the more powerful 15 cm artillery.

The countries I found that used the gun:

Netherlands (12 cm L/12, introduced 1908)
Note: Dutch case/primer markings are very recognizable, and are not present on this shell case. This is based on my own knowledge (I am Dutch).

Russia (introduced 1905, later turned into the 12,2 cm M1909)
Note: it makes no sense to me the Russians would use import shell cases with C/12 type primers. I asked a Russian collector to check for me on Russian forums, as I have no information on a Russian 12 cm M1905 case.

Japan (Meiji Type 38, introduced 1905)
Note: I asked our Japanese expert on this forum, he will check when back from holiday, but for now it seems it is unlikely Japan imported Karlsruhe made shell cases as they are not found and Japan was able to make their own cases.

Turkey
Note: completely unknown field for me. Any Turkish collectors out here that could try to find some information?

Switserland
Note: Switserland was able to make their own cases around that time, so very unlikely.

Bulgaria
Note: the "B" could mean Bulgaria (Bulgarien in German), but also here I have not seen this "B" marking before. Also French made cases for Bulgaria in my collection, do not show such a marking.

Summarized, I still have no idea for what country the case is made. It is possible the very early case (same year as the gun model) and therefore the "B" marking are related to trial shooting maybe. Just a wild guess for now. Will keep investigating!

 

[thekees]

Just checked 300+ 3,7 cm (about 100 WW1) or bigger cases, and no "B's" in the recess found. However in the book "DIAGRAMS OF GREAT WAR GERMAN NAVAL GUNS - SHELLS & EXPLOSIVES - NAVAL FUSES & EXPLODERS" , there is a page that explains 3 versions of the C/12. In one of the versions a capital G is displayed in the recess, simular tot the B you mentioned.

 

[Hoeksel]

Hi Kees, first, thanks for the check! Knowing your collection, you have mostly navy cases while this is army. I also have the book you mention. I added the image of that page. Interestingly, the third type is actually Italian. As for the second type, that one I think is very common. I do not think there is a relation to the primer in question. Also, I have no idea what the meaning of "G" would be.