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British Manufactured M16 37 mm 1930 case - questions

A

Andy Naude

Well-Known Member
Saw this head stamp today on a 37 mm M16 case. This is the first time I see a British case. Is 1930 not a bit early for this case? What does TAK No. 2 stand for? Could I be mistaken with the calibre?


40353146_1866862636734714_2813175687362379776_n[2].jpg
 
1930 is well before the 37mm M3 cannon was even tested in the US. I believe the US did not even make the first M3 37mm gun until after 1936 - after the evaluation of a 37mm German PAK 36.
 
Andy, a possible explanation for TAK is Tank-Abwehr-Kanone.
The 3.7-cm TAK was introduced late in WW1, but was a German anti-tank gun.
 
This is not the American 37 mm M16 case. Still a question as to what ?

I was mistaken in thinking that this was the American 37 mm M16 cartridge case. At first glance they appear similar. So would still like to get confirmation on what exactly it is?

IMG_0429.JPG IMG_0423.jpg

The case on the left is the case in question.

Case length: 228 mm (M16 Case 222mm)

Rim: 52 mm (M16 Rim 55mm). The rim appears to be semi-rimmed.
 
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Just a thought but the case looks a lot like the Italian Breda M39 anti-aircraft gun case. Vickers had a long relationship with Italian guns, could this be an item produced for Italy. I think the Breda case should be 232mm long with a rim of 51.5mm, so we are close. With the South African involvement in the Western Desert campaign an Italian item being in South Africa is not too daft, I hope!
 
37 mm Colt, US made for UK (experimental) according my information. Case should measure 37x228R50.
 
This case exists according my information as US made for UK. I agree this case is probably UK made indeed, based on the head stamp.
 
I thought to add a couple of pictures, purely for comparison purposes. Pictured are the Italian Navy 37mm anti-aircraft gun and US Army M17 37mm cases. Having measured my Italian case it is 230mm long, from a reference source the first of these guns came into service with the Italian Navy in 1932, the M1932 being a twin barrelled weapon. The Italian case clearly has a thicker rim than the US M17 case and probably thicker than the case pictured by Andy.
 

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All of these cases I think are copied from and altered to suite from the French Mle 1902 37x202 Tube Cannon case in one way or another.
(Things like the U.S. M63 is an almost direct copy of the french 37mm 1916 D shell for instance.) The rims changed, they got longer, but essentially
the same old 1902 case ~
 
By now I know the listed dimension of 37x228R50 is incorrect: the cases shown by Andy and 1 I found in another collection, are 37x228R51.5-8. As for a theory that was proposed, maybe TAK means "Tenk Afweer Kanon". The more I think about it, the more logical. As a native Dutch, many South-African words are easy to understand for me. Tenk Afweer Kanon (SA) = Tank Afweer Kanon (NL) = anti-tank gun (UK). It is a fact these cases have no broad arrow (= export) and are found in South-Africa. They do resemble typical cases for a 37 mm AT gun (or AA gun for that matter). My theory is therefore, the shown case is for a South-African anti-tank gun.
 
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