Unknown Case

[siegfreid]

Can anyone ID this case please ? I assume it's a flare or shotgun case & measures approx. 3.24" long x 1.24 diameter & 1.32 " across the rim . It has a fixed brass liner & the HS looks like a very small crcle with a cross in the middle . Thanks in anticipation . Siegfreid.

 

[siegfreid]

Just trying this post again . Is there a book of some type that identifies cartridge cases from their dimensions ? Failing this , does anyone know at least what it might have been used for as , I assume , cartridges with liners are not that usual ? Thanks again . Siegfreid

 

[AE501]

From the thickness of that case rim and a liner it would suggest a far greater pressure requirement than just for flares or shotgun.
You would do better to look into the Coffman (Kaufman) engine starter cartridge systems.
These were widely used in the 1930s and 40s for starting things that needed a lot of power before electrical systems had the power to rotate engines. Bulldozers, tanks, aircraft etc. all used them. They were particularly useful on aircraft carriers where a few boxes could be safely held very close to the flight deck, rather than moving a large vulnerable generator.
They come in a variety of sizes and materials, some all brass or aluminium and others paper cased.
There is a good clip on Youtube from the original film "Flight of the Phoenix" , showing the cartridges being loaded.

 

[siegfreid]

Thanks AE501 . I remember those starter cartridges being used on Meteors & Canberras etc. when I visited RAF bases in the 50's with my Father . Hell of a lot of smoke ! Mike .

 

[AE501]

If you google 'Jet Engine Starter Cartridge' you will find what is very like yours in a group of four down the right hand side.

 

[TimG]

What do you mean by 'fixed brass liner'?

TimG

 

[siegfreid]

TimG. If you look at the pics I posted , there is a ridge below the case mouth which , I assume , is a liner . It's definitely brass but I suppose the whole case could have been turned out of a solid block of metal . It's actually very heavy for such a small case so perhaps it's just over engineered . On really close inspection of the tiny HS with a magnifying glass , it appears to be 3 letters & a number inside a circle but I can't make them out apart from the number might be "16" . Starter cartridges would seem to be a bit bigger? Thanks . Mike

 

[AE501]

This is a Engine Starter Cartridge No 9 Mk 2 which was used with the Rolls Royce Avon jet engine on Hunters and Canberras and earlier aircraft.
It is 180mm L x 82mm across base x 70mm across the mouth and contains a steel restricting ring inside which magnifies and centralises the thrust. The last users of these were a couple of Canberras used by Farnborough and Boscombe Down as test beds.
The film clip I referred to earlier shows how much smaller the cartridges were for piston engined aircraft.

 

[ron3350]

The dimensions are wrong but the cartridge looks like a Martin-Baker seat ejector No3 Mk2 with the weight and internal groove.
The MB cases are smaller so maybe an ejector from a different company?
The No4 Mk2 is longer but also wrong dimensions to the unknown case. It seems to be aircraft related or a starter?

 

[kahu1]

Ron3350 could be on to something here, MB ejector carts have a symbol of MBA in a circle,could that be the headstamp here, kind of looks similar?.

Also they tend to have a small primer similar to this item.
The 'liner' is part of the case wall as the thinner part at the top is rolled over on unfired examples,the internal groove/ledge retaining a buffered washer.
The standard Primary cart. has a diameter of 44mm (1.73"),rim of 47mm (1.85"), varying lengths depending on usage.

 

[siegfreid]

Thanks everyone . That's 99% certain what it is , an ejector seat cartridge . The HS could definitely be MBA & a date [76?] now I know what to look for . If any members [have to be UK, sorry] collect this type of thing , contact me & they can have it FOC . I'll put it in classifieds as well if nobody contacts . Mike .