What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

10,5cm German

F

flak18

Well-Known Member
Gentlemen.....I am in need again of your help. I have tried to solve this problem using the conventional books and online resources to no avail. Collectors of German WW1 cartridge cases will agree, I hope, that there are a few "standard" cases that we all have in our collections. I refer to 7,7cm, 10,5cm How, 15cm How and 21cm How. There are lots more of course, but these are the main ones. My question concerns the 10,5cm. I have only ever seen the short case, approx. 91mm high and 120mm across the head. This I understand was the case for the le FH 16...the standard howitzer. When I read I Hogg's book on WW2 German artillery he states that the le FH 16 was replaced by the le FH 18. He also states that they used the same ammunition...the cart case being model 6342.
If this is so, have any of you ever seen a WW1 dated 6342 case? I have not, only the shorter case mentioned above. So, was the original, short cased howitzer from WW1 upgunned to accept longer cartridge cases. The earliest 6342 cases I have seen are dated 1935...are they for an upgunned le FH 16 ? Seems to me they must be but I am really open to any suggestions.
The things we collectors worry about...amazing, isn't it ?
Thank you in advance for your help
 
The name Le FH 18 asumed the design date was 1918, so before the threaty of versailles. On this way the German industrie "fooled" the threaty and designed new weapons and guns after it.

The first time you can see is the C/34 numbering of the Navy, after mister mustage came to power in 1933. Aslo the SIg-33 is "on the date". The 18 comes back in a number of army weapons, the FLAK 18, The SFH 18, K-18.
 
i have to edit my comments For the naver it seems to be within the treaty of Versailles to develop weapons, you see C/25, C/28, C30, C31, C33 and C/34 markings, i thought in the treaty is was allowed to design ships to a limited tonnage and to limited caliber.
 
Hello Thekees...thank you for your reply. I understand about Germany sending gun designers to Sweden and Switzerland to continue their weapon designing and thereby avoiding the restrictions of the Versailles Treaty. Yes, there are many German weapons designated 18......Flak, IG 18, K18 etc etc. What I am asking is has anyone seen a 10,5cm le FH 16 case 6342 from WW1....dated from 1916 onwards. Was the short 10,5 case...91 x 120 the first le FH 16 to see service and then in the 1920's the cartridge case was lengthened ? I see that the 1936 dated cases I have do not bear the words le FH 16 or 18, only l FH and 6342. The FH 18 was introduced in 1929 I think, so what is the story with the FH 16 ? A mystery to me. I have some German manuals showing le FH 16 cases, with design number 6342, the same length as the le FH 18 cases. But, does anyone have, or have they seen, a case with the words le FH16, dated in WW1 ? Thank you all for your patience with me on what must seem a very tedious subject.
 
Have to check if i can find reference form WW1 to the name le FH16.

Kees

Ps,

as far i can find is that the short case (91 or 93 mm) is for the lfh 98/09. And the cases for the LFH 16 and 18 are the same, and that the LFh 18 is a modified model of the LFh16 as you said. So now i'm curious if the LFH was a modified LLFH98/09, using the same ammo as the 98/09. And that the LHF 16's used in WW2 are rechambered, to match the cases for the newer Lfh 18. Tough question you have there FLAK18.
 
Last edited:
Found the answer. In H.DV 481/25 you can see that the same cartidge was used for the LFH-16 as for the LFH-18 in WW2,cartridge number 6342.
 
Last edited:
Hello Kees...... yes, they were the same cases....FH 16 and FH 18...I have the manual that shows this. But...... if the FH 16 was introduced in 1916...as it was..... why are there no cartridge cases dated during WW1 ? I have not seen one, which does NOT mean they don't exist, just that I have not seen one. Has anyone else seen one ? Thank you for your help Kees. It is good to know you..... you have a lot of information. I collect 105/10,5 ammunition and this question has always puzzled me. Regards...Matt
 
Matt, i think in WW1 the cases were the same as rthe 98/09 and therefore not special marked. I've seen these marked 1916 and 1917.
 
Hello....I think I need to correct a mistake from my earlier posts. I asked if anyone has a case marked 6342 from WW1. Of course, that is impossible, as the 63 numbering system was not in use then. The earliest case I have using this system is 1936, so it must have commenced around then, although I am open to a definitive answer as to the exact date....please !!
So, does anyone have a 10,5cm case, 155mm in length, from WW1.... hopefully marked le FH 16.
I think what has happened is that the older 98/09 case was used for the le FH 16 during the war. After Versailles, when the German gun scientists were working in Sweden and Switzerland they designed a bigger gun and ammunition, the le FH 18, and rechambered the old le FH 16 to take the longer cartridge case. Same projectiles would have been used. I think it is significant that the cases I have from the 1930's are marked I FH and do not mention either 16 or 18...just I FH.
Thank you all for your patience...I know I am a little obsessive about this particular calibre.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top