British Ordnance Collectors Network
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
105mm
- Thread starter Tuney
- Start date
Do these have full calibre driving bands ?
So, I think someone in an ordnance depot somewhere has painted an HE projectile as a Drill projectile... wrongly. You cannot load a full calibre driving banded projectile into the breech during gun drill because, naturally, it will engage the rifling and will not come out when the breech is opened at the end of the loading drill. The cart case will but not the bomb. Poor old gun sergeants would have to struggle to extract these with a very cunbersome tool
There were a lot of these around about 15 years ago, also for 105mm How, complete with cart cases and Drill charge bags. Very nice though.
There were a lot of these around about 15 years ago, also for 105mm How, complete with cart cases and Drill charge bags. Very nice though.
These are all original with the paper signed inside the case lid dated all the card tubes are dated the fuse horse shoe protectors and shells are all dated . The cases were still sealed with wire and lead seal when I cot them the fuzes are also original drill fuzes . They were also all checked by the bomb squad last year and all good
What does a full calibre unfired drive band look like ? I only have experimental and drill unfired shells so can’t compare but I do no these are original drills
Attachments
I'm quite sure your rounds are safe...the HES would ensure that of course. HES looks a bit like wax...have you had the fuzes off ? I suppose the EOD guys would have done that.
Full calibre bands sit proud from the body of the shell. Yours do that, which is why I say that they are repainted, HES filled HE projectiles. My 105mm How Drill which is similar to the ones you have actually has green paint under the blue.
I sometimes feel the problem is that there is misunderstanding between terminology. There are Drill rounds that are not intended to ever be fired and which must replicate in every way the weight and balance of the real, live round and Practice rounds that ARE intended to be fired although they do not contain explosive substances. They are coloured 2 different shades of blue which makes for even more confusion.
Consider the training of gun crews. The are on the gun position using Drill ammunition and get the order to load. They pick up a round from the loading tray and place it in the breech and they push it firmly home. They hear a chunk sound as the copper driving band engages the rifling. Then the breech slams shut ready for the lanyard to be pulled to fire the round. Round away in theory and the breech is opened. Out falls the cart case but the bomb is still in there, firmly held by the rifling. That is what happens if they are using projectiles that have full calibre driving bands. Drill rounds have either no band at all or suitably shaved ones to eliminate the problem of engaging the rifling.
I tend to go on a bit I know so sorry if I have done so here. I just sometimes think very strange things are done that are not right and if not corrected the myth perpetuates and becomes the norm. Just look at some of the dreadful ammunition related clips on You Tube.
Lovely looking rounds you have in your collection. PM me if you want to talk more.
Full calibre bands sit proud from the body of the shell. Yours do that, which is why I say that they are repainted, HES filled HE projectiles. My 105mm How Drill which is similar to the ones you have actually has green paint under the blue.
I sometimes feel the problem is that there is misunderstanding between terminology. There are Drill rounds that are not intended to ever be fired and which must replicate in every way the weight and balance of the real, live round and Practice rounds that ARE intended to be fired although they do not contain explosive substances. They are coloured 2 different shades of blue which makes for even more confusion.
Consider the training of gun crews. The are on the gun position using Drill ammunition and get the order to load. They pick up a round from the loading tray and place it in the breech and they push it firmly home. They hear a chunk sound as the copper driving band engages the rifling. Then the breech slams shut ready for the lanyard to be pulled to fire the round. Round away in theory and the breech is opened. Out falls the cart case but the bomb is still in there, firmly held by the rifling. That is what happens if they are using projectiles that have full calibre driving bands. Drill rounds have either no band at all or suitably shaved ones to eliminate the problem of engaging the rifling.
I tend to go on a bit I know so sorry if I have done so here. I just sometimes think very strange things are done that are not right and if not corrected the myth perpetuates and becomes the norm. Just look at some of the dreadful ammunition related clips on You Tube.
Lovely looking rounds you have in your collection. PM me if you want to talk more.
Only the centre of the drive bands on my drill rounds protrudes the top and bottom of the band slopes down to become the same as the shell
What I don’t understand is that your telling me they are not original drill rounds from the uk sealed in there original stamped drill metal crates in there original card tubes stating drill with original drill fuzes (not plugs ) that these are not drill rounds ?
Practice rounds can’t be confused with drill rounds as the colour is completely different . Practice are a light blue drill are dark blue so no confusion there
Attachments
Quite right, no confusion with the colour on a gun position...it's the nomenclature. Some people think Practice are to practice with....meaning to them, to practice gun drill. Totally different in reality.
I once saw, at an Ordnance depot, leftover from WW2 3.7 inch gun projectiles that had been painted as Drill rounds....somewhat clouded thinking when you consider a real 3.7 inch HE Drill round ! What was even more surprising was that they were for sale to raise money for the Christmas Club. All the packaging was there wth all the pieces of paper and cardboard cylinders, boxes etc, even though they obviously did not fit correctly.
Your driving bands are full calibre so WOULD snag the rifling.
Not much more I can tell you, You must make of it what you will. Fascinating hobby we have but so much more for us all to learn.
It’s the firing of the propellant that forces the drive bands onto the riffling not the loading
Attachments
Well, on the 105mm rounds that I loaded the first bite of the rifling was when the round was loaded but hey, what do I know ?
I expect that they are for using in the classroom, not loading practice. they would normally have a modified band for that. Drill isn't just loading the gun.
I have never seen an original incorrectly marked piece of British ammunition in its original box and packing like those shown in 35 years of collecting. It may happen but I would be interested in hearing of examples as it would for obvious reasons have serious safety implications! Just my thoughts.
I have never seen an original incorrectly marked piece of British ammunition in its original box and packing like those shown in 35 years of collecting. It may happen but I would be interested in hearing of examples as it would for obvious reasons have serious safety implications! Just my thoughts.
Mine are original 100% they were still sealed with wire and lead seal from the 1960s the shells tubes fuzes and cases and labels all match up even the 98lb weight on the transit cases are correct they also have original drill fuzes on them as stated on the transit cases and card tubes . How anyone can say they are not original when I broke the wire lead seals is beyond me even the metal transit boxes have the officers number and date when they were sealed and I have 4 boxes . Some people just don’t no what they are talking about . You don’t have a marked drill fuse on a marked drill shell in a marked drill card tube in a marked drill metal transit case with all matching dates if they are not drill . Come on use some sense people .
Practice shells are NOT drill shells I never said they were practice shells which by the way are fired from the gun . I said they are drill shells which are not fired from the gun there is a difference
When separate loading ammunition is used, the projectile is rammed to engage the rifling so that it doesn't slide back before the cartridge or charge bag is loaded and the breech is closed. At high angles of elevation, this is more important. That's why drill projos have the bands modified so loading drills can be practiced without the shell sticking in the rifling. US 155mm drill shells were a specially made steel and bronze item with a sprung loaded rear section that bounced back on ramming and unseated the shell from the rifling.
The bands on my drills are not as pronounced or as thick as the fired 105s I have . The bands on those stick out more and are a lot thicker
Fired bands can be deceptive as the copper is deformed by the lands and fills the grooves giving a larger diameter after firing than before, albeit not by much. Sounds like your drills have different bands to a service shell though, which makes sense.