12.7x99mm NATO - .50 BMG Rounds

[EagleEyes]

Here is my collection of 12.7x99mm NATO .50 BMG rounds.
I was wondering if anybody could identify the Country, Manufacturer, Projectile and Usage?
Is there a good book or website that could give me this information?

Round 1
Headstamp: L C 4
Projectile: Silver Tipped, Copper with Steel Core
Manufacturer: Lake City Ordnance Plant, USA
Date: 1944
Note: M8 API (Armour Piercing Incendiary)

Round 2
Headstamp: DM 43
Projectile: Blue Tipped, Copper with Steel Core
Manufacturer: Des Moines Ordnance Plant, USA
Date: 1943
Note: M1 Incendiary

Round 3
Headstamp: T Z 77
Projectile: Blue, Red & Black Tipped, Copper with Steel Core
Manufacturer: Israeli Military Industries, Israel
Date: 1977
Note: APIT (Armour Piercing Incendiary Tracer)

Round 4
Headstamp: T Z 77
Projectile: Blue & Black Tipped, Copper with Steel Core
Manufacturer: Israeli Military Industries, Israel
Date: 1977
Note: API (Armour Piercing Incendiary)

Round 5
Headstamp: У Л 7-71 (Hebrew)
Projectile: Green & Black Tipped, Copper
Manufacturer: Israeli
Date: July 1971
Note: API (Armour Piercing Incendiary)

Round 6
Headstamp: K S 43
Projectile: Copper with Steel Core
Manufacturer: Allegany Ordnance Plant, USA
Date: 1943
Note: M2 Ball

Round 7
Headstamp: K 76 .50
Projectile: Copper with Steel Core
Manufacturer: Kynoch, UK
Date: 1976
Note: 12.7x77mm Spotting BAT (Battalion Anti Tank) Round, M33 Ball
Weapon: L6 Wombat - light 120mm recoiless anti-tank weapon

OK the last round is a lot shorter, any ideas?

 

[hicky1300]

7th one is a Kynoch .50 spotting round
1st is a Lake City USA .50 AP WW2
2nd Dominion API WW2
3rd & 4th no idea as to manufacture but probably 12.7 APIT & AP
5th & 6th No idea

 

[TonyE]

.50

OK here we go.
1. Lake City Ordnance Plant, 1944, M8 API
2. Des Moines ordnance Plant. 1943, M1 Incendiary
3. Israeli Military Industries, 1977, APIT
4. Israeli Military Industries, 1977, API
5. Lapua, Finland, July 1971, probably API
6.Allegany Ordnance Plant, 1943, M2 Ball
7. Kynoch, 1976, M33 ball.

Regards
TonyE

 

[zwerge]

Isn`t #5 a Isreali HS ?

 

[EagleEyes]

Russian Alphabet У Л = Y L

I may have misled you as the headstamp on Round 5 is I think Eastern European (Russian) or Middle Eastern (Hebrew) as it uses a different alphabet which I think may be
У Л translates to Y L or ЦП to T T. I didn’t think Lapua in Finland would use such an alphabet, please see image for Round 5.

 

[TonyE]

OOPs

It serves me right for looking at the listing and the title and not the images!

No.5 is definitely Israeli. I identified it from the "KP" which is Lapua. It is Hebrew by the way, not Russian. I also did not look at the picture of No.7, the .50 Spotter (BAT). Mea culpa!

The .50 Spotter should not have a ball bullet. It should have a two coloured tip.usually yellow and red, but there were dozens of different colour combinations on the development rounds. It has probably just had a M33 ball bullet put in the case.

Attached are a few examples of Kynoch .50 BAT rounds.

Sorry about the confusion,
TonyE

 

[EagleEyes]

Headstamp: У Л 7-71 (Hebrew)

Round 5: As the headstamp text has been identified as Hebrew (У Л 7-71) do we know what it translates to and the manufacturer other then Israeli?

 

[EagleEyes]

.50 Spotting BAT

Round 7: Sorry for my ignorance but what is .50 Spotting BAT Round and what is it used for and what does BAT stand for?

The coloured bands may have been polished off so I may get the projectile pulled and examine it further. Does anybody know how I could accurately identify a .50 BMG projectiles once the colour codes have been removed?

Im thinking from the weight, construction and the tail appearance I may be able to work something out. Has anybody got the specifications of .50 BMG projectiles and some images?

 

[tomsk]

BAT stands for battalion anti tank the 12.7x77 round was fired first to see where it landed it had a spotting tracer projectile then main gun was fired.

regards
tomsk

 

[TonyE]

Wombat

To expand a little on Tomsk's answer, the round was used in a ranging machine gun fitted to the Wombat, a light 120mm recoiless anti-tank weapon. The ranging gun was fitted co-axial with and matched the trajectory of the main gun. When the .50 round was fired, it traced and emitted a bright flash and puff of smoke when it hit. When that was on target the main gun was fired.

A similar system was used on the early Chieftain tanks before laser range finding was fitted, but they used a spotter proj. in the normal 99mm case. These were the L11A1, L11A2 and L13A1 rounds (picture attached of two experimental and issue L13A1 plus .50 BAT drill rounds)

details of Wombat here:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L6_Wombat"]L6 Wombat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Wombat_Recoilless_Weapon.JPG" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Wombat_Recoilless_Weapon.JPG/180px-Wombat_Recoilless_Weapon.JPG"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/bb/Wombat_Recoilless_Weapon.JPG/180px-Wombat_Recoilless_Weapon.JPG[/ame]

If you pull your round and it is a spotter tracer, it will be a long boat tailed bullet with the base sealed with a celluloid/plastic material.

I will post a picture when I find a loose bullet to scan.

Regards
TonyE

 

[EagleEyes]

12.7x99mm .50 Cal Headstamp

Hi Guy's, I've just picked up a couple of 50 Cal, what can you tell me about the round from the headstamp?

1, CBC 08 (+) L8A1
Projectile: BALL
Year: 2008
Country: Brazil
Manufacturer: Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos, Sao Paulo, Brazil

2, K 89 L11A2
Projectile: Spotter Tracer
Year: 1989
Country: British
Manufacturer: Kynoch, Birmingham, England


3, K 72 L13A1
Projectile: Spotter Tracer
Year: 1972
Country: British
Manufacturer: Kynoch, Birmingham, England

 

[TonyE]

50 Cal

Your first round is a ball round made by CBC Brazil on contract for the British military and is current issue. I am reasonably sure these are actually made in Brazil, but they could be made by MEN in Germany, which is owned by CBC.

There is also a similar tracer round, the L9A1.

The Kynoch round is the L11A2 spotter tracer I described in Post 10 in this thread. It should have a yellow over red tip and there is also a picture in the left hand photo on that post.

I'll refrain from any cracks about eagle eyes!

Regards
TonyE

 

[EagleEyes]

Your first round is a ball round made by CBC Brazil on contract for the British military and is current issue. I am reasonably sure these are actually made in Brazil, but they could be made by MEN in Germany, which is owned by CBC.

There is also a similar tracer round, the L9A1.

The Kynoch round is the L11A2 spotter tracer I described in Post 10 in this thread. It should have a yellow over red tip and there is also a picture in the left hand photo on that post.

I'll refrain from any cracks about eagle eyes!

Regards
TonyE

Hi TonyE,
Thanks for the info. Sorry I forgot that you had already mentioned the L11A2.

Would you know where I could pick up the projectiles for the L11A2 and the 12.7x77 BAT? Would you also know where the best place in the UK to trade or purchase: inert, blank and live ammunitions?

 

[TonyE]

Ecra

Are you a member of the European Cartridge Research Association? If not, then you need to be. Their three UK meetings per year are by far the best place to trade for colectors ammunition. PM me for details.

You say you want live ammo. Do you have an FAC varied to collect ammo? If not, then your options are limited to Specialist auctions and dealers who inert ammo.

Also, be aware that L11A2 and .50 BAT Spotter rounds are classed as incendiaries and therefore Section 5, even in they are in inert rounds. It is the projectiles that are the subject of the Act.

Regards
TonyE

 

[EagleEyes]

K 72 l13a1

I've just found a 12.7x99 case Headstamp K 72 L13A1. What projectile would be used with this, what colours and was this an experimental round?

 

[TonyE]

L13a1

The L13A1 was not an experimental round (it would have an XL number if it was).

In the left hand picture of my Post 10, the middle round with the violet tip is a pre-production experimental headstamped XL13E1 and the right hand round is an issue L13A1.

Cheers
TonyE

 

[EagleEyes]

Spotter/Tracer

If you pull your round and it is a spotter tracer, it will be a long boat tailed bullet with the base sealed with a celluloid/plastic material.

I will post a picture when I find a loose bullet to scan.

Regards
TonyE

I have a few .50 cal projectiles but I've not had time to pull the BAT round yet. Have you found the picture of a pulled Spotter/Tracer and do you know the weight and length?

 

[TonyE]

.50 Spotter

The weight of the standard US M48A1 spotter bullet is 816 grains, but the Kynoch made ones varied slightly. One drawing I have shows a bullet weight of 832 grns.

I still cannot find a loose bullet for the spotter round, but it is longer than a normal .50 bullet. The tracer cavity in the base will be closed with a plastic/celluloid varnish, just like this Kynoch .50 tracer.

I will keep looking!

Regards
TonyE

 

[EagleEyes]

.50 cal projectiles

Here are 4x .50 cal projectiles that I'm looking to identify. All have a steel core. Any further information would be appreciated?

Projectile 1
Weight:41g (633grn)
Length:58.4mm
ID:
Type: ???

Projectile 2
Weight: 44.8g (693grn)
Length: 57.2mm
ID:
Type: ???

Projectile 3
Weight: 40.2g (621grn)
Length: 59.2mm
ID: Blue
Type: ???

Projectile 4
Weight: 42.1g (649grn)
Length: 58.3mm
ID: Silver / Grey (Yellow)
Type: ???

 

[Lorenz]

The .50 Spotter should not have a ball bullet. It should have a two coloured tip.usually yellow and red, but there were dozens of different colour combinations on the development rounds. It has probably just had a M33 ball bullet put in the case.

I think you're probably right in this particular case. The bullet shown looks like a M33 ball (or an unpainted M8 API or M20 APIT).

But there is indeed a 12,7 x 76 with an inert ball bullet: the Ball Practice T249E2, made in USA and in Spain too. Identification is a khaki or green painted tip.