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12 Pounder 12 Cwt Primer

Falcon

Falcon

Well-Known Member
I won a nice "banned" 1907 12 Pounder 12 Cwt case on ebay. What mark of primer did this case type take? I know it was one of the ones that stuck out so the case could be extracted from the gun.

If anyone had a spare, please could they let me know.
 
I picked up a 1941 12 Pr 1200 CWT case and Primer

today, primer dated 9/02 , not together. How on earth didi this system work in the gun breach ? I can't for the life of me figure out how the breach closed unless the primer was screwed in after closing. And it looks like a separate primer was used as in bag charge guns ?
 
Hi Falcon,

Do you have the case length for the 12 pr 12 cwt?

Or the case length for the 12pr 8 cwt & the 12pr 18 cwt?

I came across a 12 pr case today, couldn't make out which cwt is was, but dated 1918 and appears to be a Mk I case, perhaps naval or AA???
Case was in excellent condition, but suspect in may have be shorted as the case length was 39cm (~15") - AND unfortunately no primer!!!

Thanks
Cheers
Drew
 
390mm is the length for the 12 Cwt. The 18 Cwt. is 513mm long. The giveaway as to whether it has been shortened or not is the 6 cutouts at the top of the case. These are unlikely to be there on a shortened case.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/74762-4.7-quot-Coast-Gun-case-markings
The photo shows what I am talking about. I re-cut these on a 4.7" Coast Gun case that had been filed down by a few mm to remove them.
 

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Hi Falcon,

Excellent - thank you!

Yes, sounds like the 4.7" case reference, the 12pr has been shortened to removed the cutouts, which is a damn shame as the case condition is almost "brand new"!!! :tinysmile_cry_t:

What's the depth of the cutouts on the 12pr?

Any ideas on how common are these cases? Just considering if this is worth pursuing as a trade item...

Thanks
Cheers
drew
 
The cutouts are semi-circular, 4mm across by 2.2mm deep. The notch between them is 4mm across. If I saw that case and it wasn't too short I would buy it and do what I did with the 4.7". I skimmed the case mouth off in a lathe so it was perfectly flat, then smoothed out the edges of the mouth with emery cloth and then metal polish. I then used a milling machine with a 4mm end mill to re-cut the notches. I thought the 4.7 case came out really well.

As for how common it is, they are around but not as common as say an 18 Pounder of French 75. If I thought it was cheap enough I would pick it up and restore the notches.
 
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just a reminder that the 12cwt came as FA with crimp grooves and no cut outs and is 407mm long.
 
Falcon / 2pdr,

Guys thank you both for the information.

Any photos/ examples of a "non-shortened" one? {Google searches seems to only find the Mk 2 /Mk 3 case diagrams that Falcon posted earlier in this thread}

There's certainly no signs of crimps grooves or cutouts....I'll let this one pass.

Cheers
Drew
 
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Hi 2pr,

Are the above case specifications (407mm + crimp grooves) for the AA version?

I found this old BOCN thread, which aligns to both sets of case lengths and cutouts vs crimp grooves that yourself and Falcon provided:

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/52258-12-Pounder?highlight=case

The photos of the case has cutouts and stated to be 390mm.

So looks like the one I saw on the w/end had a couple of MMs grounded off and the base markings are almost identical to the previous thread's photo.

Did this type have the protruding primer?

Any case length drawings for these 12pr? (8cwt / 12cwt & 18cwt)

Thanks
Cheers
Drew
 
I believe all of these early case designs with the notches had the protruding primer. If the one you saw still had the primer in it would have been worth getting even though it is cut. The primers are much rarer than the cases. This is because the case won't stand up with the primer in, so many people simply removed and discarded the primers. I have even seen one where someone has sawn the primer off flush with the base of the case using a hacksaw. This had also left alot of score marks across the head of what would have otherwise been a really nice case.
 
Hi Falcon,

What do you make of the primer in the middle photo?

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/52258-12-Pounder?highlight=case

It is flushed with the base as seen in the first.

I'll have another look at that case - it's almost identical as the one shown in the above reference (1918 / Mk 1 etc), but "as new" condition - it was at an antique market on the w/end, but I know where the Guy's shop is at.

Unfortunately no primer.........I should really stick with my fuzes.... life is funny isn't it - the stuff that you are not really interested in "pops" up everywhere!!!!

Cheers
Drew
 
As far as I can tell, the primer in that photo is the cut-off threaded section of the usual primer.
 
Slightly longer 407mm 12pr 12cwt case is the AA version and mines marked 12pr 12cwt FA. It too has a protruding type primer well at least the threaded hole for one. All 12pr cases take the naval protruding primer as do early 4 in, 4.7in and 6in cases. The hole for these is smaller than the typical primers used for this size case in land service and the hole is tapered and does not have a counter bore. Only the 12pr 4cwt has a flat primer. As Falcon says the primers are hard to come by and the one in the picture looks like the remains of one. I've not managed to remove a primer from a case but haven't used heat or much force because of the risk of damage or live primer, hard to tell if an electic one has been fired.
 
2Pounder, do you have any cases that you would like the primers taken out of? My tool shown in the other thread will soon undo them.
 
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