British Ordnance Collectors Network
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
120mm apds core
- Thread starter SG500
- Start date
Great photos SG500. What projectile is this? 120mm L15A5?
Thanks Marty. I'm not sure. The rear of the projectile is different to the usual 120mm apds projectiles - the tracer is odd and the base is at 90 degrees instead of being at an angle. Its a bit of a mystery.
Dave.
Attachments
Thanks Dave. Looks like a small tracer for such a fast projo. Does the WC penetrator have a really close sliding fit with the Magnesium outer body? The U.S. ones (105mm) are really close, and it takes a while to pull the core out because of the vacuum and close fit.
Hi John no the core doesn't fit as close as I would expect it to, there's none of the smooth slow lowering of the core into the housing that you would expect. The base of the core doesn't sit close to the base when its screwed on. I can see exactly where you're coming from on this - all the other 120's and 105's I have do have a large tracer.
It could be the housing is wrong for the core, it could be its for something else, that's how it came. Have you any other ideas?
Dave.
It could be the housing is wrong for the core, it could be its for something else, that's how it came. Have you any other ideas?
Dave.
Chris 42 RQ
Well-Known Member
Experimental item !
I think you have yet another "Experimental" round there Dave, especially as it unscrews as it is usually only the older design that were scew assembled due to the cost of manufacture.:tinysmile_shy_t:
Also I am not sure that your core shape is a "standard" form ?
I think you have yet another "Experimental" round there Dave, especially as it unscrews as it is usually only the older design that were scew assembled due to the cost of manufacture.:tinysmile_shy_t:
Also I am not sure that your core shape is a "standard" form ?
Dave,
You either have an intermediate development piece used to work the kinks out of the design, or the front end and core of a real round, and a repro tail end that someone made, who doesn't know what it should look like. I'm leaning towards the latter also because it isn't painted, and doesn't look to be te same age as the front end.
The thing needs a boat-tail with a real tracer and a means to hold it in the pot (carrier) till it leaves the bore. Every sub projectile I have ever seen is boat-tailed to hold velocity, which is the most important thing with this design. When it comes to KE rounds, length-to-diameter, penetrator composition, and velocity are the three important factors for penetration and affect. This is a short L/D penetrator, so it needs velocity.
You either have an intermediate development piece used to work the kinks out of the design, or the front end and core of a real round, and a repro tail end that someone made, who doesn't know what it should look like. I'm leaning towards the latter also because it isn't painted, and doesn't look to be te same age as the front end.
The thing needs a boat-tail with a real tracer and a means to hold it in the pot (carrier) till it leaves the bore. Every sub projectile I have ever seen is boat-tailed to hold velocity, which is the most important thing with this design. When it comes to KE rounds, length-to-diameter, penetrator composition, and velocity are the three important factors for penetration and affect. This is a short L/D penetrator, so it needs velocity.
Hi John, yes both ideas are quite possible, that's the fun of this sort of thing - you may have a good one and maybe not!!
It came from a guy who also sold me a sabot for a 110mm apds round also.
There are more photos on the link below of what the complete round looks like:
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/experimental-110-apds-t39366.html?t=39366&highlight=110mm
The odd thing about the base of the sabot is there is no place for a tracer. Its like this on the sabot only item as well as the complete apds item (which came from a completely different source). The trouble is I can't unscrew the apds to find out what the base of the core is like!!
I have tried the core in the sabot and not it doesn't fit - needs a boat tailed bit on the back!!
Dave.
It came from a guy who also sold me a sabot for a 110mm apds round also.
There are more photos on the link below of what the complete round looks like:
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/experimental-110-apds-t39366.html?t=39366&highlight=110mm
The odd thing about the base of the sabot is there is no place for a tracer. Its like this on the sabot only item as well as the complete apds item (which came from a completely different source). The trouble is I can't unscrew the apds to find out what the base of the core is like!!
I have tried the core in the sabot and not it doesn't fit - needs a boat tailed bit on the back!!
Dave.
Attachments
Information on 110mm tank gun.
John the sabot is stencled RLB-7-75. I can't get to the complete projectile to check dates. The 110 wasn't service in the UK, the 105mm and 120mm were.
To quote a paragraph out of the book "Cold War Hot Science" published by the science museum ISBN 1-900747-47-2:
".....during this period more guns were developed by RARDE but with less success. The first was the 110mm EXP-7 which was conceived to exploit the widespread use of the 105mm L7 and its derivatives by being designed so that it could directly replece them when the expected demand for it arose. however this demand did not materialise. Moreover EXP-7 had serious problems with the extraction of its brass cartridge cases so nothing came of it except for the development of another 110mm gun, the EXP 14 which was the first British tank gun to use semicombustible cartridge cases with a metallic stub case (Daves note here - that's the one on the above link).
EXP-14 fired apds with a higher than ever muzzle velocity of 1578m/s and in spite of its slightly smaller clibre could penetrate more armour than the
120mm L11. Its performance made MVEE favour it for future tanks and in 1974 it was put forward as the main armament for the FMBT (Future Main Battle Tank) which the UK was by then trying to develop in collaboration with the Federal Republic of Germany. However in 1975 a trilateral evaluation was carried out by the UK, Germany and the USA in an attempt to find a common armament for the future tanks of the three countries. As a result of this the UK discarded the 110mm gun in fabour of a new 120mm M7."
........and that's about all I've managed to find out about the 110mm. Never seen one of the brass cases mentioned earlier in the article but I have seen several different combustible case lengths.
Dave.
John the sabot is stencled RLB-7-75. I can't get to the complete projectile to check dates. The 110 wasn't service in the UK, the 105mm and 120mm were.
To quote a paragraph out of the book "Cold War Hot Science" published by the science museum ISBN 1-900747-47-2:
".....during this period more guns were developed by RARDE but with less success. The first was the 110mm EXP-7 which was conceived to exploit the widespread use of the 105mm L7 and its derivatives by being designed so that it could directly replece them when the expected demand for it arose. however this demand did not materialise. Moreover EXP-7 had serious problems with the extraction of its brass cartridge cases so nothing came of it except for the development of another 110mm gun, the EXP 14 which was the first British tank gun to use semicombustible cartridge cases with a metallic stub case (Daves note here - that's the one on the above link).
EXP-14 fired apds with a higher than ever muzzle velocity of 1578m/s and in spite of its slightly smaller clibre could penetrate more armour than the
120mm L11. Its performance made MVEE favour it for future tanks and in 1974 it was put forward as the main armament for the FMBT (Future Main Battle Tank) which the UK was by then trying to develop in collaboration with the Federal Republic of Germany. However in 1975 a trilateral evaluation was carried out by the UK, Germany and the USA in an attempt to find a common armament for the future tanks of the three countries. As a result of this the UK discarded the 110mm gun in fabour of a new 120mm M7."
........and that's about all I've managed to find out about the 110mm. Never seen one of the brass cases mentioned earlier in the article but I have seen several different combustible case lengths.
Dave.