15 pdr HE projectile

[2pounder]

15pr shell

Herewith a photo showing inert and empty 15prs, from the left a 15pr Erhardt shrapnel, 15pr QF case by VSM, 15pr drill fuzed drill no.65A dated 1915 & 1916 respectively and what I think is a 12pr unmarked and curiously with a layer of brass on the outside, fuze could be wrong dated 1900. 2pr

 

[ydnum303]

Interesting!

Four very nice items! The brass-coated 12-Pdr is interesting; have never seen one like that before. Could it be foreign, either contract for Britain, or a "76.2mm" shell rather than a 12 -pdr?
R.

 

[Dronic69]

HI 2pr,

Very nice! Thank you for sharing.

What fuse is on the far LHS one (15 pdr Erhardt) and projectile vintage?
Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[2pounder]

15pr shell

Left hand fuze is unmarked except timing ring to No.18, I on its side 13 and 8/01. on the shell body 9.00 which could be the date, on the base 15pPr F S BI there are other marks and symbols. Pretty certain the 12pr is as labelled but what, when and why don't know. 2pr

 

[Burney Davis]

More 15prs

I thought I would add a few words and pictures to this thread. The first picture is a comparision between an unfired British made 15pr proj used on the BL guns and the Erhardt contract projectile.

The second picture is a comparison of fired driving bands. The proj on the left was fired from an Erhardt gun and the one on the right by the British BL gun. Note the narrower spacing of the lands and grooves on the Erhardt gun.

The third picture is of the two different cases. The one on the left is the original case provided by the German contract which has been broad arrow marked. The case on the right is a British produced case to go with the BL ammunition used once the original supplies were exhausted.

I would agree with previous comments that during the Boer war there were no He shells only shrapnel. HOWEVER, by 1916 there were! The final two pictures shows a 15pr HE projectile dated 1916. The driving band is of the same type used on the 12pr naval shells. I was suspicious of the shape of the '5' in the date when I first got the shell, but it is also marked the same on the base.

D

 

[ben2000]

fantastic shells

Thanks for showing those darrell they are super pieces. I shall have to start hunting for some of these early shells, really are superb.

Ben.

 

[Burney Davis]

Thanks Ben.

D

 

[Dronic69]

I thought I would add a few words and pictures to this thread. The first picture is a comparision between an unfired British made 15pr proj used on the BL guns and the Erhardt contract projectile.

The second picture is a comparison of fired driving bands. The proj on the left was fired from an Erhardt gun and the one on the right by the British BL gun. Note the narrower spacing of the lands and grooves on the Erhardt gun.

The third picture is of the two different cases. The one on the left is the original case provided by the German contract which has been broad arrow marked. The case on the right is a British produced case to go with the BL ammunition used once the original supplies were exhausted.

I would agree with previous comments that during the Boer war there were no He shells only shrapnel. HOWEVER, by 1916 there were! The final two pictures shows a 15pr HE projectile dated 1916. The driving band is of the same type used on the 12pr naval shells. I was suspicious of the shape of the '5' in the date when I first got the shell, but it is also marked the same on the base.

D

Hi Darrel,

This is exactly the "detailed" information I have been after - to distinguish between the BL and the Erhardt QF rounds - thank you for taking the time to share this valuable information.

Based on the driving band alone, my ex "15 pdr HE" is a BL shrapnel projectile oh: although the AP round may be an Erhardt as it has quite a narrow driving band(?). Pity I don't have them any more to post photos for comparison and discussion.......but I do know whos got them! :tinysmile_fatgrin_t

Cheers
Drew

BTW - In case anyone is wondering - the shrapnel was already painted as a "HE" when I purchased it years ago! Funny enough, an 18 pdr shrapnel projectile from the same person was also incorrectly painted as a "HE"......

 

[Dronic69]

Hi 15pdrs,

While researching into the shrapnel ammo further, most early projectiles (~1900 and later) appear to be Mk V, and eventually the Mk VI in WW1.

I'm curious (yes unfortunately again!), if there were earlier 15pdr BL shrapnel projectiles with earlier MKs and the differences between them? i.e. Mk I, Mk II, Mk III and Mk IV???

Lastly if there are earlier Mks (assuming to be produced between 1892-1900?) , how common are these to be found now?
Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[Dronic69]

HI All,

Humm, no thoughts on the scarcity of the earlier shrapnel MKs? (MK I, Mk II & Mk III) as the Mk IV, V & VI are about.
How about differences?

Any members actually have them?

Were there any 15pdr ammo handbooks?

Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[Dronic69]

Good Evening All!

Well the years of "sulking" for letting my 15pdr shrapnel projectile go has finally come to an end as I have managed to find some more than suitable "replacements"!!!

The first set of photos show a 15pdr Mk II shrapnel projectile dated 1896, still with original traces of paint, including a painted broad arrow on the body, which I have not seen before on these.
It has a matching 1897 No 56 Time and Percussion fuze.

The second set of photos show a 15pdr Mk V shrapnel projectile dated 1900, unfortunately no original paintwork was left, but a reasonable example. It also has matching 1901 No 56 T&P fuze fitted. (I have also included a photo of the rusty state I received it in, prior to cleaning it up!)

I was also curious on the differences between the 15pdr shrapnel shell Mks and finally dug up an old 15pdr H/book reference: (for those that may be merely interested!)

=============================================================

15pdr Shrapnel Shell variations in the Mks

Mark VI:
-----------
The body of the shell is of forged steel (FS). A plain copper driving band is fitted into a undercut groove turned 0.66 inch from the base. The groove has two waved ribs to prevent the band from turning on the shell, and three chisel cuts across the ribs to facilitate the pressing of the band.
The head of the shell is fitted with a gunmetal fuse hole socket screwed to the G.S. gauge, and secured to the body with screws and twisting pins.
A tin cup is fitted in the base to contain the bursting charge (1.5 oz R.F.G powder).
The interior of the shell is lined with brown paper and has also a tin lining which contains about 230 bullets (41 per lb.) and resin, being supported by a steel disc over the tin cup.
A metal tube is screwed into the steel disc, and the upper end, which is prepared internally to receive a primer, is secured to the fuze socket by means of a metal nut.

Mark V:
----------
Differs from the Mark VI in having a driving band with front slope serrated.
The shell contains 192 balls (35 per lb)

Mark III:
-----------
Mk III & Mk IV also differ from the Mk V in having a driving band with two cannelures, but in the case of the Mk III, the groove is not undercut.

Mark II:
----------
Is similar to the Mk III, but is filled with 200 balls (35 per lb).

==============================================================

I'm still curious to how many Mk I, Mk II or Mk IIIs are currently out there?

From a poll of a number of fellow Oz collectors that have 15pdr shrapnel rounds, all seem to have Mk V in their collections.

I would expect some in the UK???

Enjoy!

Cheers
Drew

 

[Gspragge]

Great Thread- I have wondered how long Vikers used the VS&M mark. 1 pr cases are not dated
until ww1 nor are the prewar 1 1/4 & 1 1/2 Pr cases made by them. This 1911 case as shown by B.D.
earlier in the thread certainly helps answer this. Does any one have a VS&M in a circle marked case
for 1912 - 1914 or 15 ?

 

[Burney Davis]

Great Thread- I have wondered how long Vikers used the VS&M mark. 1 pr cases are not dated
until ww1 nor are the prewar 1 1/4 & 1 1/2 Pr cases made by them. This 1911 case as shown by B.D.
earlier in the thread certainly helps answer this. Does any one have a VS&M in a circle marked case
for 1912 - 1914 or 15 ?

The case is actually dated 1901 Gordon, not 1911,

D

 

[Gspragge]

OH Bugger ~

 

[Dronic69]

I'm still curious to how many Mk I, Mk II or Mk IIIs are currently out there?

From a poll of a number of fellow Oz collectors that have 15pdr shrapnel rounds, all seem to have Mk V in their collections.

I would expect some in the UK???

Enjoy!

Cheers
Drew

Just bumping this up for the "last" time...........

Are there no Mk I, Mk II or Mk III in any member's collections at all???

Any 15pdr projectile dated earlier than 1899 would most likely be one of these MKs.

Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[TheCommunicator]

Does anyone have information about the base markings on the 15pdr shells? So far I've seen RL, CSE, CSF and EOC. I was just wondering what they mean.

Thanks

 

[charley777]

Does anyone have information about the base markings on the 15pdr shells? So far I've seen RL, CSE, CSF and EOC. I was just wondering what they mean.

Thanks

These letters represent the manufacturers...........RL is Royal Laboratory
EOC is Elswick Ordnance Company
Can't remember the other two, but many experts are members of this forum so i'm sure you will find out (-:

 

[fert]

Hi
here my 15pr shrapnel MkV1900 dated, with N63 fuze. some original paint.

last pic show the manufacture logo, a camel. did you know who is please?

best regards

 

[rcaf53]

I have a 15Pr III shrapnel dated 6/3/99 no fuze length = 229mm
Frank.

 

[Dronic69]

Hi Fert,

Nice round - great to see the parts of the original paintwork!

I have never seen the Camel logo before and is that the letters "camel" under it? (hard to make out)

Your No 63 fuse was converted in 1905 from the original No 56 (1900). The No 60 fuses and later were of the double banked system (2 time rings).
In addition, the No 63 was the first tension fuse ever issued - all the others were of the clamped variety.


Hi Frank,
Thanks for sharing - so the Mk IIIs were still produced in 1899....So it looks like the Mk Vs were produced late 1899/1900 and onwards.

Cheers
Drew