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18 pr long and short

S

starshell

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
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Hello all,
Despite my good wife constantly nagging about the ever growing shell collection, as a fathers day gesture (in collaboration with the old man) and unbeknown to me, she bought me the short 18 Pdr you see in the pics. Its an absolute cracker.
My question is this: (and please excuse my ignorance) Does anyone know why the 2 different lengths?
The short projectile (220mm) has the following stamps on the body:
18 PR
XII
RL
11.8.18

I'm able to decypher the stamps, and wonder because this is a late war piece whether that influenced the length?
The long projectile (236mm) has:

SWR
QF.18.PR
FS
VII
VSM
12.5.16

Haven't been able to find a great deal of info on the 18 Pdr variations so I'd be very greatful for any input.
Many thanks chaps!
D
 
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I cant see my wife coming up with anything similar for Fathers day, but hey ho , you never know.....
Lovely shells either way.
Cheers
Gary
 
hangarman said:
I cant see my wife coming up with anything similar for Fathers day, but hey ho , you never know.....
Lovely shells either way.
Cheers
Gary
Click to expand...

Thanks Gary,
Yeah, it was a bit out of character, but I did the washing up for a week beforehand. That might have persuaded her.....
Thanks for the compliments re shells!
 
Doesn't happen often Roger! The next 5 fathers days will revert back to book token/socks/cake....
Its a beauty, with traces of the original Red paint still evident. Not sure why the 2 differing lengths though?
Cheers!
 
Have a look at the Cartridge QF 18 Pr Handbook 1931 in downloads.
The dimensions are at variance with some of yours, but it is a bit later than the dates in your thread.

For the Mk XII it gives it as 9.25 inches, whereas yours is 8.66 inches (220mm converted) and has 292 balls.
For the Mk VII it gives it as 9.86 inches, whereas yours is 9.29 inches (236mm converted and has 345 balls.
 
Hello,

Doc :

18pr.jpg

Starshell, maybe your measurments are ok but length of 18pr shrapnel are given with adapter.

Short one : First time I see such a groove on the head of a Mk12

mk12
18pr shrapnel mk12.jpg
 
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Many thanks AE501 and MINENAZ16.
You are both spot on with the dimensions. The error I made was to measure the shell minus the adapter. I'd always thought measurements were taken of just the body of the shell only, so many thanks for clearing that one up!
I have re-measured both shells and they come in at 9.25" and 9.868" so all's well there.
Many thanks MINENAZ16 for the 18Pr dimensions chart, just what I was hoping to find. Would you have similar for the 13Pr by any chance?
Can't shed any light on the ogive groove on the short I'm afraid.....
Cheers!
 
Shrapnel shells were delivered with top socket and plug from factories (same remark for common lyddite shells).
As shrapnel fuzes are found with socket on battlefields (normal after shell operation) many people mistakenly think socket (adapter) belongs to the fuze.

Doc for 13pr shrapnel :

13PR SHRAP.jpg
 
Thanks again MINENAZ16, always coming up trumps as usual....:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
I guess the adapter threads, being quite fine and not so deep as the fuse thread, makes for a weaker part of the whole assembly. That, coupled with the expansion of the adaptor socket on the shell means its the first to go on ignition.
Can't recall seeing many No.80 fuses for sale without its adapter.
(Got a lovely No.80 fuse in a knackered old adapter, theadapter grub screw head, holding fuse secure, is shot to pieces so may have to carefully cut it loose without damaging fuse threads. Should be fun...)
Many thanks again!
 
I would be ecstatic for my misses to take any interest in my ordnance at all - let alone to buy such a great 18 pdr example! Don't forget to buy her something very nice on mothers day. Near impossible to get an unfired 18 pdr shrapnel here in Aus, so must be reasonably hard also in the UK. That is a very nice example with a onetime filled, but unfired fuze also.

It is not uncommon to see 18 pdr shells with a groove cut at the top near the fuze socket as shown on this privately produced (Machinery) drawing.

I have an early (Oct 1914 Mk V) long 18 pdr with lightweight fuze that was once a lamp, but luckily it was not polished or nickel plated. (It is not seated in the case properly.)

Does anyone know when the shrapnel's went from grey to black, as I would like to paint it. The handbooks I have are not specific.

Regards,

Graeme
 

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Hello Darkman,
Thanks for posting the machinery doc, very interesting, and a nice little collection of ordnance you have too, especially the grey one.
Yep, my other half does come up trumps and is great at keeping it a secret. I may have to return the favour and perhaps by her a nice 9.2"....
On the subject of the grey 18Pr, I'm stumped, so will be just as interested to find out. I know a lot of newly developed industrial equipment was usually photgraphed painted grey as it showed up better on the photo's (promotional pictures of locomotives, ships, field guns, etc). I'm wondering if this was the case with ordnance. I could be talking out of my wazoo, but its a guess....
Either way, a very nice piece.
Cheers!
 
The "grey" 18 pdr is just a 1916 dated Mk III HE shell rather than a shrapnel and fitted with a No. 101 Mk II fuze. You can tell the HE's by the thicker wall thickness and the fact that they don't require a socket (adapter) for the 2" fuze to screw in. It is not painted or polished, that's just the colour of the clean steel as it came out of the molasses cleaning bath. I will paint it HE golden yellow eventually.

The shell on the LHS is also an 18 pdr HE, but a 1941 dated WW2 Mk 1C streamlined shell fitted with a No. 117 fuze.

Early 18 pdr shrapnel shells were actually painted grey with red bands (later black with red bands), and that's what I'm trying to determine - when they went from grey to black.
 
And a cracker that HE is too Graeme. Took me ages to find a nice example, (unpainted). My main focus of collecting is heavy calibre Great war ordnance, 9.2", 8" 21cm, 28cm, 6", 15cm, etc, but I collected a small amount of light stuff for comparison. Seems 18Pdr shrapnels are ten a penny here, HE stuff not so, at least thats been my experience so far.
Sorry I can't help with the switch from Grey to Black timescale, I'm sure someone on here will chip in.
(Pic shows: lower shelf, 18 Pdr HE & Shrapnel, 13Pdr)
Cheers!
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Wow, what a collection, fantastic! Like the fired (dud) HE and the German 77s. German 77mm projectiles are almost unobtainable here.
This is the "light stuff" ??!!
 
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Hi Graeme,
Thanks for the compliments! Yes, I consider these the light stuff, above is a small taster of the medium/heavy bits. Around 60 odd in the collection, by no means as big as others collections, but I'm restricted by how much weight I can load the floorboards with.
From left:
1st pic 9.2" late war streamlined & 9.2" std,
2nd pic 28cm French Mortier with 18Pdr for comparison,
3rd pic 28cm french mortier, 9.2" Brit HE, 8" Brit HE, German 21cm HE,
4th pic 6" Brit HE and 15cm German HE long and short & 15cm Gas,
5th pic mixed bag of 60Pdr HE/Shrapnel, 10.5 German, 15cm shrapnel, French 105mm HE, 18Pdr, 77mm, 75mm, 13Pdr, and out of shot 6x 4.5 HE Brit, 17cm Minenwerfer, French 155 HE, 2 X 8" Brit HE.....

1X sprained back......
 
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