1890's 6" Mark IV BL Projectile Time Fuse

[Dronic69]

Fellow Fusiers,

Here's a 1891 time fuse from a 6" Mark IV BL gun projectile.

These guns were used at Fort Kissing Pt, in Townsville (QLD) for coastal defense against a "potential" Russian invasion back then.

As per normal Military Surplus policy once the guns became obsolete - dump everything at sea >>> BUT as Fort Kissing point is situated on a cliff headland, the surplus fuses were just tossed over the cliff (explains the hulky green colour!!!!)

Fortunately, during the low spring tides, access to the bottom is quite accessible for the locals.....this is one of about 6 that were recovered.

Perhaps someone can advise the actually Fuse No???
Only markings are:
The date (8/91);
The "50" stamped above the date
A "M18" on the body
The usual "R^L"
Thanks
cheers
Drew

 

[lcn]

Hi Drew
It's a No. 24 (fuze time sensitive meddle )1897-1920 or a No23. (fuze time sensitive long) 1887-1912. The two fuzes are strictly identical, they armed the How Star shells for ,5.4-5-inch and 6 inch inch
Attached is a diagram of no24 (treatise on ammunition 1902)

[FONT=&quot]au revoir
Jean Paul[/FONT]

 

[Dronic69]

Bonjour Jean-Paul,

Merci beaucoup!!!

Your diagram looks very familiar and I suspect that I had research this fuse a long time ago and have "misplaced" the paperwork since then!

Cheers
Drew

 

[EOD]

Outstanding find Dronic!

 

[HAZORD]

Yes, an extremely beautiful fuze! Excellent find!

 

[Dronic69]

Thank guys!
Yes I was very fortunate - even more fortunate that I also have one of the "sibblings" as well, :tinysmile_classes_t perhaps a little more knock around, but still in quite reasonable condition considering that it has been underwater for a while.

Here a couple more pic with a No56 MkIV for size comparison - interesting there's only 4 years difference between them!

Enjoy!
Cheers
Drew

BTW - Humm, I'm kind of glad that the army didn't have a recycle program back then.....but how much stuff have they "wasted" over the years!!!!

 

[dano1917]

Great stuff Drew, I love those early fuzes. Keep 'em coming. Would be obliged if you would photograph all your fuzes together......Dano

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Handsome fuzes there Drew. Are there even earlier models located in your trove?
John

 

[Dronic69]

Hey Dan,

Don't panic it's on the "to do" list - a lot of them are still "packed away" and slowly getting them out.
I'm thinking to start with "group" shots i..e

WW1 German
WW2 German
WW2 US
French WW1 (although there's only two of them from memory!)
WW2 Japanese
British pre/post war

You get the idea.............

Here's most of the Pre-WW1 (shown)
From L to R:

1) 1891 6' Mark IV BL projectile Time fuse;
2) No56 Mk IV Time & Percussion fuse (1895)
3) No56 Mk IV Time & Percussion fuse + projectile adaptor(1901)
4) No? Time & Percussion variation (1903)
5) Later No 56 variation with extra time ring to increase time
function from 18 sec up to 44 secs. (1904 period)
6) No60c with extra time ring to increase time up to 44sec (1902-1904 multiple date stamps))

>>> Just missing the M.75 time & percussion fuses which are on another thread & the Civil War Paper fuses
Cheers
Drew


Have added the 8 sec & 5 sec Civil War period blackpower paper fuses.

(Yes they are "INERT" - have been chemically treated)

 

[dano1917]

Hi Drew, I will be chomping at the bit until I see those WWI German fuzes in picture(s). I am sure there is a collector or two in here waiting as well. Happy unpacking......Dano

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Drew,
Attached is an even later model of this prolific design.
John

 

[Dronic69]

Mystery Solved!!!

Hi John,

I believe you have just *solved* another fuse riddle for me! :five:

The No54 is my number (4) fuse in the group photo - I obviously became very curious when you mentioned that this is a later model of the No 24, so I did some comparsions and "inter-operability testing"!!

The thread size is the same for both fuses and the photos tells the rest!! (Noticed the stamped "III")

Is is also clear that the hex nut on top has been "flattened".
(When I first received it, I thought it was a "replacement" one)

Thank you Sir!

:shakehands:

Cheers
Drew

BTW - This came from Fleabay UK - there was a Ebay Seller a couple of years ago and from memory sold a number of them, this being one.
[Damm, should bought more!!!!!]

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Does anyone know what the stamp to the right of the III means? Drew please remember that the fuze I posted is a drawing from an original image so the scale might not be exactly accurate.
John

 

[Dronic69]

Hi John,

The "KN" stamp I believe stands for:
"Kings Norton Metal Co. Ltd, Abbey Wood, Kent, UK"

[Interesting enough it is also stamped on the base of a very recent post of the old naval shell case:

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/shell-case-t74887.html?t=74887 ]

Yes I agreed that the No 54 drawing you kindly posted may not be to scale - but there quite a lot "similarities" between the drawing and the fuse:

Time ring scale is 30 sec (same as the drawing)
Has "III" stamped (drawing states No54 Mk III)
Later version of the No 24 (has same thread base and inter-changeable top) - with my top being "squashed" in a little.

It seems that this period fuses where just stamped with the "MK" only, the couple of my No56 MkIV onlyhave the "IV" stamped on the body, yet one of the later ones (1904) actually has a "60c" stamped - so I thinking that around 1904 onwards is perhaps when the fuses were stamped with the actually fuse number in addition to the MK- looks at all the WW1 period No 80s - all the ones I have seen are stamped (probably some exceptions).

One of the BOCN members posted the "complete" fuse no list - but fuse around this period (no 56 - 65) are just described as "Time & Percussion" - when I have some spare cycles I should "google" the Fuse No!!!:smile:

Cheers
Drew

 

[dano1917]

Hi Drew, what a "classic" looking fuze. My knowledge does not pre-date WWI (by choice) but I know what I like and I certainly like this one and had never seen one before. Man if I collected everything I liked, i'd be living in a cardboard box under an overpass somewhere. I wish I had something tangible to add to this thread but I do not. I would think most fuze collectors would agree that this is a fine one. Here I go again, learning stuff which is un-avoidable (thank goodness) whilst being a member of BOCN. Can't wait to see your other fuzes as you get them unpacked. Best my friend.......Dano

 

[Dronic69]

Can't wait to see your other fuzes as you get them unpacked. Best my friend.......Dano

Hi Dano,

I guess I better go and start work on "excavating" those storage boxes.............:bigsmile:

Cheers
Drew

 

[Banny]

Good Morning Chaps,
Could someone help me identify this Fuze?
It looks very similar to some on this page.
The markings are:
12/99
R^L IV
485

Does the 12/99 mean manufacturing date (Dec 1899) or does it regard the delay timing?
It was fired during Dec '41.

Thanks for any help rendered.
Cheers

PS: It looks set at 8.75. Would anyone be able to tell me what this setting is for (ie: detonate x metres off the ground)

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

From the 1915 Treatise on Ammunition, page 268 under `double banked' (meaning two time rings rather than one) T(ime) & P(ercussion) fuzes, sub-heading Tension fuzes - `With the older types of fuzes it was necessary to unclamp the time rings to set the fuze. This was done by loosening the top nut which was tightened up again after setting.' It goes on to say that tension fuzes were introduced to speed up the setting of T & P fuzes, whereby `the top cap is screwed down till a weight of 24 ounces at the end of a six inch lever will just turn the ring. To set the fuze it is only necessary to to turn the ring to the required setting. All modern time and T and P fuzes are `Tension fuzes'.

Page 310 of the 1915 Treatise gives info on the Fuze, Time, Sensitive Middle, No 24 Mk 1 - `This fuze can still be used with the star and shrapnel shell with the B(reech) L(oading), 6 inch and 5.4 inch howitzers. It will become obsolete when existing stock is expended.' The table on page 312 gives a little more info - Time of burning at rest = 14.6 to 15.8 seconds; for star shell, exhausted stocks of Fuze No 24 Mk 1 to be replaced by Fuze No 25; for shrapnel shell, exhausted stocks of Fuze No 24 Mk 1 to be replaced by Fuze No 54. The table also mentions that for the 6 inch BL howitzer there were 30 cwt and 25 cwt variants.

Page 313 of the 1915 Treatise gives info on burning times of various fuzes, including (with relevance to this post)
Fuze T & P No 60 (small type of T & P fuze with 2 time rings, 1 inch (GS) gauge) = 20 seconds. Page 317 - No 60c Mks 1 &2 are conversions from Nos 56, 57 & 61 (single ring) fuzes. No more of 60c will be made. Old stamps barred out and new added.
Fuze T & P No 56 (small type of T & P fuze with 1 time ring, 1 inch (GS) gauge) = 13 seconds. Page 317 - No 56 Mk 4c was graduated from 0 to 18 and subdivided into quarters.
Fuze T & P No 54 (large type of T & P fuze with 1 time ring, 1 inch (GS) gauge = 16 seconds. A note on page 319 says that `No more 54 or 62 fuzes will be manufactured.'

With regard to settings and burning times there must have been tables that gave information to help set fuzes correctly, especially when you consider that barometric pressure and height above sea level would affect pressure and therefore the length of burning time of the fuze composition.

 

[Dronic69]

Hi Banny,

I would say it is a British No 56 T & P Mk IV as this was the only Mk used in production for the 56 (or "4c" if it has 0-18 secs on the single bank time ring). [Refer to the photos on this post]

Yes the "12/99" is the date (December. 1899, Boer War period) and normally used on 2.95" to 4" shrapnel shells - although looks like it is on a 15 pdr nose cone to me)

Not sure if I would agreed that it was fired in "Dec, 41", as these fuse types were truly obsolete by the 1920's.

"R^L" is the Research Laboratories and "485" I believe is the Lot number.

Cheers
Drew

 

[Banny]

Thanks very much Drew,
It is much older than I thought.
I found it on a battle site in Hong Kong, and due to the fluidity of the fighting and location, I can pretty much date it as being use on 24 Dec '41 (give or take 24 hrs).
Looks like it did it's job.
Thanks again for the help.
Cheers