.22 rf

[TonyE]

Since it has been a little quiet on the SAA front on the forum recently, I thought I would post some pictures of an often overlooked round, the military .22 Rimfire.

The .22 RF has been in British service in some form or another for well over 100 years, originally in Short form, then the Long and finally the Long Rifle.

Here are the headstamps of a few examples in the collection.

left to right:
.22 Mark I made by Royal Laboratory
.22 Mark I made by Kynoch (dished base)
.22 Mark I made by Kings Norton metal Company (dished base)
.22 Mark I made by Kirkee Arsenal, India
.22 Mark I made by SAAF Footscray, Australia
.22 Tracer Mark I made by ICI Kynoch (WW2 period)
.22 Inspectors Mark I, probably made by ICI Kynoch (unheadstamped)

Regards
TonyE

 

[Andysarmoury]

Thanks for showing them Tony, i have one or two early one's and some box's of MkI.
Cheers
Andy

 

[raymeketa]

Interesting Tony. Thanks. I think I have one or two of the cartridges with the hole in the base that you call an Inspectors cartridge. I always assumed it was just something that someone made in their garage. I'll have to find it and take a good look at it. Maybe it is something collectable, after all.

Ray

 

[smle2009]

Very nice TonyE,
I especially like the inspectors round,I have been meaning to ask this question for some time now...did the military ever use.22"LR blanks,I have a copper one headstamped E


Tony

 

[peashooter]

Very nice TonyE,
I especially like the inspectors round,I have been meaning to ask this question for some time now...did the military ever use.22"LR blanks,I have a copper one headstamped E


Tony

Tony are they definitely blanks as I have some very similar with the crimp and an E headstamp but they are .22rf shotshells, it was only when I was asked to drill one and empty the powder to inert the compound that tiny lead shot came out.

Rich.

 

[EOD]

What would be the difference to the MK2?
A box that I came across recently and took an image of:

 

[glevum]

I don't know what the is the difference between mk1 and mk2, but the mk2 has been around since at least 1966.

See attached picture.

Will.

 

[Andysarmoury]

This is a MkII box dated 1959
Andy

 

[smle2009]

Richard,
no mate it is a blank as I took one apart.
Will,
skating on thin ice here but I think the MkI were copper cases and the MkII brass.

And a photo of a current use L5A1 box

Tony

 

[Andysarmoury]

The MKI were copper and MkII are brass see pic MkI on left
andy

 

[TonyE]

Thanks guys. I will post some more pictures and details later, but have a couple of tons of pebbles being delivered shortly for the garden that have to be shifted this morning!

Tony - if you find another L5A1 box/label can you put it aside for mr please.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Hi TonyE,
already on my list of things to look out for.
Ouch! a couple of tons of pebbles to shift! ever thought of moving to the seaside!:bigsmile:

Cheers
Tony

 

[bazooka chris]

This is a MkII box dated 1959
Andy

Hi Andy

Are you sure it's 59 ? As it looks like 69 to me ?

From bazooka chris

 

[TonyE]

I will take some photographs of the rounds tomorrow, but in the meantime I have been trying to sort out the sequence that the .22RF in its various forms was adopted by the military.

I have only got Lists of Changes up to 1926 to hand so will need to check the later items at another time. However, here goes!

LoC 13642 Nov. 1904 "Ctg.. Aiming Tube RF (Mark I)/L"
Long copper case, 39.9 grn bullet. 4.7 grns RFG2 blackpowder propellant.

LoC 15628 Oct. 1908 "Ctg. .22 inch RF No.2 (Mark I)/N"
Short copper case, 30 grn bullet, blackpowder propellant. Naval Service.
Nomenclature of the long case changed to "Ctg. .22 inch RF, No.1 (Mark I)

LoC 15936 Feb. 1912
Nomenclature of the No.1 (Mark I) extenced to "/C" to include Naval Service.

LoC 17461 Feb.1915 "Ctg. .22 inch RF No.1 Smokeless (Mark I)
Introduction of the smokeless version of the previous blackpowder round.

LoC 17550
Change of nomenclature of the blackpowder No.1 round to "CTG. .22 inch RF No.1 Blackpowder (Mark I)

LoC 23310 May 1919
Nomenclature of the No.1 Smokeless round changed to "/LA".
This was just a refection of the formation of the Royal Air Force and the introduction of the "A" distinguishing suffix.

LoC 23763 Jun. 1920
"Ctg. .22 inch RF No.1 Blackpowder (Mark I)" obsolete for Land Service but retained by Royal Navy. Distinguishing letter reverts to "/N".

LoC 24376 Feb. 1921
"Ctg. .22 ich RF No.1 Blackpowder (Mark I)" obsolete for Naval Service

LoC 24639
Introduction of the "Ctg. .22 inch RF No.1 Smokeless (Mark I)/N" for Naval Service

LoC 24871 Nov.1921
"Ctg. .22 inch RF No.2 blackpowder Mark I" sealed with the above nomenclature for Naval Service and drawing N.O.D. 1546 sealed for future manufacture..
This was a minor change of nomenclature but showed that the Royal Navy continued to use the short case Blackpowder round long after the army considered it obsolete.

The No.2 (Mark I) became the copper cased Mark I we have seen above, but I do not have the LoC introduction for the Mark 2. I will try to find it.

Meanwhile, off topic, but here is the results of my shovelling efforts this morning.

Picture 1 was at about 9.30 am this morning and the second one at lunchtime. There were two tons there!

Regards
TonyE

 

[Andysarmoury]

Hi Chris my apologies i should have look closer it does say 69 and should have known better lol
Cheers
Andy

 

[smle2009]

Nice job TonyE,
and in good time too! it took them ages to do the stone circles around here:bigsmile:

Regards
Tony

 

[TonyE]

As promised, here is the picture of some of the .22RF rounds.

They are, l. to r.

- No.1 mark I by Royal Laboratory, dished base with headstamp "RL" over "I"
- WW2 period tracer, headstamp "ICI" in diamond
- Inspection with nickeled case, small central hole in base, no headstamp
- Wood bulleted round with Eley "E" headstamp. I am unsure whether this is a blank or a drill round as I have not pulled it.
- Inspection round for .22 conversion kit for L1A1 SLR. Turned brass with centre drilled out. Note length of the "case" portion. I am not familiar with this conversion kit but I understand that it fires before the bolt is fully home which is why the case length is like this. Any armourers here?
- .22 Winchester Auto for the Winchester Model 1903 rifles used for training observers in WWI

Also shown is an early label for the No.1 Mark I round made by Kynoch.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Jimiles]

- Inspection round for .22 conversion kit for L1A1 SLR. Turned brass with centre drilled out. Note length of the "case" portion. I am not familiar with this conversion kit but I understand that it fires before the bolt is fully home which is why the case length is like this. Any armourers here?

I was an armourer back in the seventies Tony. The .22" H&K conversion kit was in widespread use for the SLR. No, it did not fire from an open bolt position. It was blowback action and fired from a closed (but not locked) bolt position.The conversion kit's firing pin was actually struck by the SLR's hammer.
All of my time was spent with the infantry but, certainly at that level, we never saw .22" Inspection rounds.

 

[TonyE]

Thanks Jim.

Interesting info, but why does the inspection round have a long "case" section,? These are legit British military rounds, you will find them in the Royal Armouries collection at Leeds. I acquired my examples many years ago and was told they were longer than normal because of the way the H & K conversion worked.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Jimiles]

Hmmm, I really don't know Tony. All I recall is that we definitely did not have dummies or inspection rounds for .22 H&K kits. Purely guesswork on my part but I'm wondering whether your 'inspection round' may actually be an 'cartridge headspace guage', i.e. to stop the breech fully closing. It would be unusual to see what is generally a precision guage to be made of brass but that's all I can suggest. Perhaps Simon will chip in on this.
Jim