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25-MM French
- Thread starter jvollenberg
- Start date
charley777
Well-Known Member
Hotchkiss Mle 1938 anti-aircraft round
Yes uncommon fuze with general shape of japanese version (but different).
Never seen before.
charley777
Well-Known Member
That Mle1935 ....
Is case length 154.5mm or 160mm ?
For an aircraft gun? Experimental?
Any info appreciated
Thanks very much
Is case length 154.5mm or 160mm ?
For an aircraft gun? Experimental?
Any info appreciated
Thanks very much
What I understand M35 is a shortened gun (for Panhard AMD 17) and not short case (193mm)
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
You need to get hold of an impressive new book called Autocannon :tinysmile_classes_t
This includes descriptions of various French interwar 25 mm automatic guns and ammo. Some extracts, starting with the Hotchkiss group:
25 x 163 HOTCHKISS / TYPE 96
Two different 25mm Hotchkiss guns using two different cartridges saw French service in the 1930s: the 25x 163 for the Mle 1938 automatic AA gun (adopted by the Japanese Navy as the 25mm Type 96) and the 25 x 194R for the Mle 1934 manually-loaded anti-tank/light tank gun.
25 × 193 HOTCHKISS
A few examples of this ammunition (known headstamp dates are 1933 and 1934) plus a factory drawing from 1930 survive. It bears a close resemblance to the rimmed 25 × 194R for the manually-loaded anti-tank gun but it has the same rimless base as the 25 x 163 described above. A US source indicates a projectile weight of 317.5g and an MV of 823m/s. Total round weight was 816g.
The associated gun was marketed as an ‘anti-tank machine gun’ and a photo exists of one on a low-angle mounting. The development sequence is unclear but the earliest known dates on Hotchkiss factory drawings of the three case types are:
25 x 193: mitrailleuse Hotchkiss: March 28 1930
25 x 194R canon anti char Mle 1934 canon SA Mle 1938[/I][/FONT]: September 18 1931
25 x 163mitrailleuse Hotchkiss 25A -J case aviation type: June 13 1934
Then the DCAN ammo for naval aircraft guns:
25 x159.5 D.C.A.N.
Along with the 23 x 122 HS 406/7, this was the most significant of a series of 23mm and 25mm French aircraft gun projects of the 1930s. This one was a naval project, and the cartridge case is much slimmer than that of the 25 x163 of the Hotchkiss Mle 38/39 AA guns (see below) at 33.8mm instead of 42.6mm. The case length was initially 161.5mm and the gun designated the Mle 1933 but was modified to 159.5mm before adop- tion as the Mle 1935. Projectile weights tested for the Mle 1933 varied from 265g to 313g, with MVs of around 830m/s. For the M1935, the standard HE-T-SD shell weighed 289g including 37g of T4 explo- sive; muzzle velocity was 825m/s at a maximum chamber pressure of 320Mpa.. Some cartridges and a drawing (showing a different projectile) are known to survive: the cartridge measures 270mm long overall, the drawing gives a length of 263.4mm.
A small number of Canon de 25mm Modèle 1935 were made and three were fitted to Aeronavale flying boats which saw service in World War II. The Canon de 25mm Modèle 1937A was also made using this cartridge case and projectile, but the ammunition was downloaded to 775m/s at 240Mpa chamber pressure and the gun lightened to make it more suitable for flexible mounting.
25 × 135.5 CANON DE 25MM MODÈLE 1937B
This was a shortened version of the 25 x 159.5 round described above, with both the case and projectile being reduced in length. Presumably the gun was a suitably modified version of the Canon de 25mm Modèle 1937A, but no details have been identified concern- ing either weapon. The overall round length is 207mm. The projectile weight is 200g, the muzzle velocity 875m/s with a maximum chamber pressure of 240Mpa
The guns are described separately.
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