2x .30" 06

[smle2009]

Can any one help with these 30-06s that have been in my not too sure about box for a while?Both are made by Frankford Arsenal, the first is a war time ball(tracer) with a green tip,I have seen somewhere that this could have been from a contract to England, can any one confirm that this contract was with Frankford in 1942? the green paint seems wrong to me(too much of it after 69 years!).The second round was supposed to be a drill round,it only has one hole drilled in the side & the cap has been crudely drilled out! could this just be a bad job of making a standard ball inert?
Regards Tony

 

[SpudGun]

Frankford Arsenal used a Green tip for the following types of bullet, Tracer, AP and Lachrymatory.


The dot between the F and the A in F . A 29 indicates a change in the case manufacturing process, in this case there will be a minor inside difference in the internal shape at the head.

I 'think' that this round has had a local mod to make it into a dummy round.

 

[MissingSomething]

Frankford Arsenal used a Green tip for the following types of bullet, Tracer, AP and Lachrymatory.


The dot between the F and the A in F . A 29 indicates a change in the case manufacturing process, in this case there will be a minor inside difference in the internal shape at the head. I 'think' that this is a local mod to make the round a dummy.

What spudgun said :tinysmile_fatgrin_t

The green tip is most likely AP or tracer as the Lachrymatory bullets have a different profile I am told.

 

[tommatt3]

U.S Cal..30 tracer ammo made at Frankfort Arsenal in 1942 had either a red or orange painted tip. Green is the British code for A.P and the Combloc code for tracer. I would say both of the rounds shown are the product of a local party.

 

[smle2009]

Frankford Arsenal used a Green tip for the following types of bullet, Tracer, AP and Lachrymatory.
Hi spudgun

The dot between the F and the A in F . A 29 indicates a change in the case manufacturing process, in this case there will be a minor inside difference in the internal shape at the head. I 'think' that this is a local mod to make the round a dummy.

by local mod do you think it is a recent mod or a "offical,ish" mod by homeguard ect?
Thanks Tony

 

[SpudGun]

U.S Cal..30 tracer ammo made at Frankfort Arsenal in 1942 had either a red or orange painted tip. Green is the British code for A.P and the Combloc code for tracer. I would say both of the rounds shown are the product of a local party.

Frandford Arsenal did use Red, Orange AND green for Tracer.

My info comes from .30-06 by Chris Punnett

 

[SpudGun]

by local mod do you think it is a recent mod or a "offical,ish" mod by homeguard ect?
Thanks Tony

The round seems to have had a good old battering so use by Home Guard could well be the answer.

edited to add: try a magnate on the green tipped bullet if it is magnetic its probably AP.

 

[dano1917]

Frankford Arsenal

http://www.workshopoftheworld.com/frankford/arsenal.html

 

[poltewerke]

.30 cal.

These rounds are from the lend lease program - the green tip is the M2 armour piercing projectile. As you say the other looks like a local job. One other thing, is the proj. envelope G.M. or G.M.C.S. if Gilding Metal then check out with magnet. However, if GMCS you could have a real nice item re. the SACP trial ammn.

 

[tommatt3]

The only green tracer I.D used by F.A was on the M1924 Green tracer. This was NOT paint on the bullet, but a green lacquer over the primer. This model was dropped by 1926. There was no F.A. made green painted tip ammo in 1942. The round shown in the photo appears to have green nail polish on it.

 

[smle2009]

Hi everyone,
Tried the magnet test,not magnetic,so that rules out A/P! took note of Tommat3 comment about green nail polish & it does look like nail polish! So I pulled the bullet & if I am not mistaken that is a 7.62mm nato bullet! Did have my doubts about the green paint before so thanks to everyone for the info, which without I would never have pulled the bullet & it would have stayed in my not too sure about box
cheers Tony

 

[TonyE]

Green tip

I agree with Tommatt3 about the M1924 tracer, which was identified (sometimes) by a green lacquered primer, and is actually what Chris P states in his book.

However, according to Hackley, Woodin and Scranton (Vol.1, p.188) Frankford loaded green tracers "..from time to time throughout the 1930's. These are identified by having a green-painted bullet tip. Headstamp dates have been noted ranging from 1930 to 1939."

With regard to the British connection, the green tipped AP that were made for Britain were made by Remington as it was a commercial contract, not Lend Lease. Frankford Arsenal, being a US government facility would not have made contract ammunition in this way.

That is immaterial now, as we know it is not an AP bullet.

I liked the afterthought from Mr.Poltewerke regarding the SACP trials, but I don't think the bullet holds up. A pity, as it would have looked nice with my other SACP rounds.

The drill round though could be one of the Home Guard expedient type. It does not conform to the Drill D Mark I because it should have a wood distance piece and two pairs of holes at right angles.

Regards
TonyE

 

[poltewerke]

.30 cal. green tip.

lt would seem l'm in error over contract FA mfg. green tip rds., these were ofcourse R.A. headstamp - please forgive. However, CSAR used F A 42 green tip AP. M2 and R.A. green tip AP M2 as 'Control ammn.' in browning brl. while assessing charge weight required for .30in UK. (Radway Green) mfg. Types 'B' 'E' and 'H' projectiles. Good hunting to all at Beltring. Ron

 

[TonyE]

Sacp

Thanks Ron. Interesting info. Is that from a Proc?

Regards
Tony

 

[poltewerke]

.30 cal. exptl. U.K.

Hi Tony, no, not from Procs -from hand written notes - ex (XC)3 Swn. l remember you had a 6.5 KJ ctg. case which we did a swap on when we first meet - so long ago, must have been in mid 70's as l was with Pan Am. Which complete loadings do you have now? recall Mead, Woodend and Peter Lab had the odd rounds all of which l noted and photographed. Am keen to know how your collection has progressed. As ever, Ron

 

[TonyE]

Sacp

The old collection has got bigger over the years, but more in quality than quantity.

I have a nice set of SACP 6.5 rds with orange, green and maroon tips that were ex PJFM and a few other bits and pieces including an RG .270.

You must come over and have a delve!

Are you at Beltring tomorrow?

Cheers
Tony

 

[poltewerke]

old times

HI old mate, l remember Fredie's stuff - he loaned them to me for a couple of weeks so l could check them out. Three loaded 256 representing AP and three proj's. plus three 30 cal proj's and two 33o cal proj's, l think he was missing the heavy bullet. Did you get any 'E(N)' 7.9 ballistic coe. proj's ?? Did you get the early.270 (unheadstamped) round like the one l was lucky to get - they only made 1000 and 50 went to F.N. for trials. Still hope to make Belt. but my life has changed somewhat - will explain when we get together. As ever, Ron P.S. bloody computers will never get the hang of them.