.30 Calibre Labels

[TonyE]

Does anybody have a label from the 1940 British contract Remington contract armour piercing or tracer rounds please, similar to the ball one below.

If so could you please PM me as I would like to use them (with credit) in a forthcoming IAA Journal article on British purchases in America pre Lend lease.

Thanks
TonyE

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Hi Tony,

could not get in contact because your PM box is full.
I have a tracer box from Remington. Pls let me know if you need pictures

cheers
Ren

 

[TonyE]

Sorry about that, PM box now cleared.

Yes please, I would very much like a photograph of the label

Thanks
TonyE

 

[Dutch]

Hi Rene,

Welcome here in this great forum.
Took a long time to find it :wink:

For all readers, Flying Dutchman is the .30-06 specialist here in Europe.

Rgds
Dutch

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Hi Tony,

pls see attached and let me know if the quality is good enough.
Otherwise I'll send them per e-mail

@Dutch
thx for the flowers

cheers
Ren

 

[TonyE]

Many thanks, those are just what is needed. I would be most grateful if you could send higher res pictures to me by e-mail. Address is aoe303 (at) btinternet (dot) com.

Thanks again,
TonyE

 

[Flying Dutchman]

E-mail sent. Pls let me know if it arrived and pictures are OK

cheers
Ren

 

[raymeketa]

Rene

Good to see you here. We need an expert on the Cal .30 (30-06) boxes and cartridges.

I'm surprised no one has commented on your avatar.

Ray

 

[smle2009]

Would that be because FA 1941 National Match rounds have never been seen since 1941?
Matches or match that is the question:tinysmile_twink_t:



Tony

 

[raymeketa]

Tony

Frankford Arsenal 1941 National Match ammunition is the Holy Grail of cartridge collectors. I first saw Rene's box a couple of years ago. I'll leave it to him to tell you about it.

Ray

 

[TonyE]

Pictures received thank you, Rene. Exactly what I was looking for.

I remember your usual excellent display at the ECRA show in September in Germany.

Thanks again,
TonyE

PS Holy Grail for .30 calibre collectors perhaps Ray! We Brits have other priorities!
Cheers
Tony

 

[smle2009]

Mk III .303" ball!!!!!!!:tongue:


Tony

 

[TonyE]

Spot on Tony, and let's not forget the Incendiary B Mark V!

Cheers
TonyE

 

[raymeketa]

Tony & Tony

You are right. I should have qualified my statement.

Do the cartridges that you mentioned actually exist?

Ray

 

[smle2009]

Hi Ray,
The Incendiary B Mk V,was never introduced for service as being a base fuzed incendiary(simular to the German 7.92mm B Patrone) it was deemed too complicated for mass production,TonyE will know how many are known today.
The Mk III ball had a very short service life and again TonyE will know how many are known,only three or four I think

Tony

 

[raymeketa]

Thanks Tony. I won't bother to dig through my boxes of loose cartridges, given those kinds of odds. I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery.

Only one 1941 Cal .30 NM cartridge is known to have existed, and even it is known only because there is a photograph of it. Others were supposed to have been manufactured but they can't be confirmed. I'll let you in on Rene's secret - his box is a Photoshop product. Several collectors nearly had heart attacks when they first saw it. I'm one of them.

Ray

 

[smle2009]

Hi Ray,
did wonder about the box and my reason for the comment 'match or matches' was,although I have only seen a few .30" national match boxes,they have been marked up as National Match,or even Special Match but not 'matches'?

A MkIII ball round went to auction over here a few years ago and made 3,500!,so maybe worth a look in your boxes Ray!

Tony

 

[raymeketa]

Tony - The Frankford Arsenal Cal .30 National Match cartons from 1932 until 1940 were all labeled "National Matches". Cartons before that, and ammunition for other competition such as Palma, International, Olympics, etc were labeled differently. National Match cartons after 1956 were labeled Caliber .30 Match, 7.62 MM NATO Match, and 7.62MM Match.

Ray

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Hi guys, sorry for not responding sooner, but the weekend was a bit busy. The story of the 1941NM box. If I remember correctly, it was a very lively discussion on the IAA forum about opening sealed boxes and seeing what is inside or not. People were discussing that treasures, unknown specimens could be found etc etc, while others were saying sealed should stay sealed. Ray, the most knowledgeable person when it comes to US Match ammunition made a remark about the 1941NM cartridge and if one would open a box to find one. At that time I decided to play a little joke and "made" my 1941NM box and told the forum that that was exactly the problem I had. Having a full box of 1941NM, not knowing what is inside and nobody had seen the H/S till then. I think the discussion broke down for an hour or so and people (including Ray) were downloading the picture, enlarging it to see if it was a fake or not. I then told them . . . .


I have attached the one I uploaded and also a scan of the only picture that exists of this H/S. It is from a 1941 US Army Manual.




Tony, to come back to your question about match or matches, Ray (who knows far more about match ammunition) already gave the answer. The first box for National Match ammuntion I have is the 1930 box (actually there are two, because the first cartridge was withdrawn). For earlier years I have only seen bandoleer cards which makes me believe that up to that time the ammunition was delivered in bandoleers and crates. From 1932 to 1940 the boxes were marked with National Matches with some little variation in label (see below). Up to the time that Frankford Arsenal took over all Match production, boxes vary per supplier. Boxes for International and Palma are also diffrent. I have added a few from my collection.

National Match


Palma Match



International Match

 

[Jimiles]

In view of the scarcity of the .303 Mk III Ball round can I assume this is also a scarce headstamp - even though it's on a Gallery round?

Jim