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30 X 170 Rarden APFSDS
- Thread starter SG500
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Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Lots of different experimental APFSDS rounds were made for Rarden, but they all failed. However, a year or two ago a slight modification of the Rheinmetall 30x173 APFSDS projectile proved successful and was approved for service. I've not heard that the MoD has bought any, though - a low priority at the moment, I suppose. It looks quite different to the one in the photo in that the plastic sabot entirely encloses the front part of the projectile.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
I don't have a photo of the Rarden APFSDS (I've seen one at Radway Green, but cameras are not allowed...) but the RWM website will give you the idea of what the projectile looks like: http://www.rheinmetall-detec.de/index.php?fid=1531&lang=3&pdb=1
Lovely addition to your collection tony and thanks for showing it,
Just for info, it cost the MOD 748,000 between June 1999 and Jan 2000 for the intellectual property rights licences in order to run the compertition for the APEP. The program was subsequently cancelled because the industry was unable to demonstrate a cost-effective solution to satisfy the requirment and payment was classed as a "fruitless Payment". On another note i have a document showing that there was a 30mm RARDEN APEP round that was dependant on Bishopton that used Mulden Propellant (only named "new propellant") which was prepared on 28th May 1999.
C
Just for info, it cost the MOD 748,000 between June 1999 and Jan 2000 for the intellectual property rights licences in order to run the compertition for the APEP. The program was subsequently cancelled because the industry was unable to demonstrate a cost-effective solution to satisfy the requirment and payment was classed as a "fruitless Payment". On another note i have a document showing that there was a 30mm RARDEN APEP round that was dependant on Bishopton that used Mulden Propellant (only named "new propellant") which was prepared on 28th May 1999.
C
Rheinmetall already have a history of 30x170, pic of rounds here
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/30x170mm-oerlikon-experimental-t35149.html?t=35149
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/30x170mm-oerlikon-experimental-t35149.html?t=35149
Another question on this............
The prac Rardens have a clip to hold the 3 rounds which is colour coded with a blue plastic strip.
What about the APFSDS ones? Would the strip be purple (expt) or black?
Has anyone got a photo of one they can post please?
Dave.
The prac Rardens have a clip to hold the 3 rounds which is colour coded with a blue plastic strip.
What about the APFSDS ones? Would the strip be purple (expt) or black?
Has anyone got a photo of one they can post please?
Dave.
Chris 42 RQ
Well-Known Member
5 colours maybe more?
Have seen Purple, Green, Black, Red and Practice Blue
Sorry but cannot remember what colour was for what except I think the Red was for A.P.S.E.
Have seen Purple, Green, Black, Red and Practice Blue
Sorry but cannot remember what colour was for what except I think the Red was for A.P.S.E.
Tony,
Maybe you can shed some light on these rounds. I have had them for a long time and always wondered about them.
The far left is a cutaway APDS in a Rarden case.
The next is a complete round with a slightly different projectile. In addition to the markings on the projectile and the headstamp I show here, the case is stencilled "APDS XL14E1 CY-89 003".
The third round is really suspect to me. It has the US made Honeywell saboted 30mm projectile that I have seen falsely loaded in about every 30mm case possible. The projectile was designed for US proof and range testing and I doubt was ever used by the British, but this is the way I got the round. To make it even more suspicious it is not crimped in the case, but then some of the US tests were not crimped either.
The last round is self-explanatory, a Proof loading.
My questions Tony are what can you tell me about the first two rounds and is the third one not a legitimate loading as I suspect.
Rarden's are hard to find on this side of the pond. These are the only ones I have.
Bob
Maybe you can shed some light on these rounds. I have had them for a long time and always wondered about them.
The far left is a cutaway APDS in a Rarden case.
The next is a complete round with a slightly different projectile. In addition to the markings on the projectile and the headstamp I show here, the case is stencilled "APDS XL14E1 CY-89 003".
The third round is really suspect to me. It has the US made Honeywell saboted 30mm projectile that I have seen falsely loaded in about every 30mm case possible. The projectile was designed for US proof and range testing and I doubt was ever used by the British, but this is the way I got the round. To make it even more suspicious it is not crimped in the case, but then some of the US tests were not crimped either.
The last round is self-explanatory, a Proof loading.
My questions Tony are what can you tell me about the first two rounds and is the third one not a legitimate loading as I suspect.
Rarden's are hard to find on this side of the pond. These are the only ones I have.
Bob
Attachments
Thanks Chris.
To quote Peter Labbetts excellent book on this:
"Inspection or drill rounds - white strip without holes
Practice rounds - Saxe blue strip with three holes
High Explosive - golden yellow strip with one hole
APDS - black strip without holes
AP secondary effect - Black and Eau de Nil strip with two holes"
Mmmmm.............no mention of apfsds.......... I wonder what the green and red ones were, presumably purple was expt?
Dave.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Bob, the only source I have on different Rarden projectiles is in Peter Labbett's 'Technical Ammunition Guide' on Rarden ammo. This includes experimentals as well as service rounds.
There were three service APDS loadings, the L14A1, L14A2 and L14A3. The A1 entered service in 1984, the A2 (1986) had various technical improvements in construction and also propellant, the A3 (1990) further modifications to the penetrator and tracer. As far as I can tell from Labbett, the external appearance of all three sabots was the same.
The XL14E1 was a development round, the immediate precursor to the L14A1. It is known as the "Patec" round because it was developed jointly with the Pacific Technica Corporation of California. Prior to this, there were some purely British APDS experimentals which featured much shorter and stubbier sabots, including some with the flight projectile protruding from the sabot, then an Oerlikon design was considered along with the Patec, but there is no reference to any Honeywell projectile.
There is another legitimate saboted Rarden round, the RO-designed L15A1 DSRR (discarding sabot reduced range). As the name suggests, this is designed as a training round for use on ranges with a more limited safety zone than the L14 requires. The approved sabot is a different shape from the L14 (it is longer overall, and in particular has a longer parallel-sided part and a blunter nose) and the service version has a blue sabot (although some development ones were black). There is also an L15A2 but the differences appear to be minor (possibly limited to the tracer).
Of course, there are also the full-calibre rounds, starting with L1A1 Drill and finishing with L19A1 Practice. Most of these are practice, gun functioning or inspection rounds, but there are the following approved "business" rounds:
L1A1, L8A1/2/3/4, L13A1/2: HE
L2A1, L6A1: APHC
L5A1/2/3/4: APSE (secondary effect: an SAP containing a "pungent smoke" compound)
The "over pressure proof" rounds are the L10A1/2/3.
A couple are pictured on this link.
Dave.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/30x172-experimental-and-t29854.html?t=29854&highlight=rarden+apds
A current legitimately used unrestricted MOD listing gives (in addition to the above) -
Rounds 30mm RARDEN AFV APFSDS L21A1
Rounds 30mm RARDEN HE-T L13A3 and A4
Rounds 30mm RARDEN Prac DS Reduced Range L15A1 A2 A3 A4 and A5
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that - Peter Labbett's booklet was written in 1999 so is obviously not up to date.
Do you happen to know whether or not the British Army has ordered any of the L21A1 APFSDS, or is it just listed as being qualified (which I know it has been)? Rheinmetall are offering the L21A1 in kit form, for purchasers to load up themselves - I have an info sheet from them.