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303 Head stamp
- Thread starter Andysarmoury
- Start date
Thanks Doctor, i could not find that one in my book.
Cheers
Andy
Cheers
Andy
Thanks again, dose it say what type of 303 they made
Andy
Andy
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doctor
Well-Known Member
Hi
The esistance of this cartridge in the service was short used and the case Mk V was equipped with prohibited ball " DUM DUM " of use and not that which you have above.
I think that the case has nothing to do with the type of ball which you have and the date of manufacture 1926 would rather indicate a marking of case badly struck what is very current on the 303 and would explain the perforating ball, therefore V would be rather W?
But why an annulus black?
Black is for Observation or Explosive
They say that: "H stamp have not been recorded in ball loading"
The esistance of this cartridge in the service was short used and the case Mk V was equipped with prohibited ball " DUM DUM " of use and not that which you have above.
I think that the case has nothing to do with the type of ball which you have and the date of manufacture 1926 would rather indicate a marking of case badly struck what is very current on the 303 and would explain the perforating ball, therefore V would be rather W?
But why an annulus black?
Black is for Observation or Explosive
They say that: "H stamp have not been recorded in ball loading"
Hi Andy,
I do not think that the H in the headstamp indicates it was made by the National Brass & Copper Tube Co., as they only made .303 in 1916 for Britain under a war-time contract, as far as I know, and most of that was not accepted as the quality was not up to the required standard.
I do not think that this round is British or from the Commonwealth; the style of the headstamp looks vaguely Dutch to me. Are you sure this is an AP round? The case appears to have "slit" crimps, whereas the AP rounds usually (but not always) have "dot" crimps. Where did this round come from? I have been collecting .303 h/s for many years, and have never seen this one! What is needed is TonyE's opinion!
I do not think that the H in the headstamp indicates it was made by the National Brass & Copper Tube Co., as they only made .303 in 1916 for Britain under a war-time contract, as far as I know, and most of that was not accepted as the quality was not up to the required standard.
I do not think that this round is British or from the Commonwealth; the style of the headstamp looks vaguely Dutch to me. Are you sure this is an AP round? The case appears to have "slit" crimps, whereas the AP rounds usually (but not always) have "dot" crimps. Where did this round come from? I have been collecting .303 h/s for many years, and have never seen this one! What is needed is TonyE's opinion!
Thanks guys for your help the round came in a job lot last year and have only now started sorting them out and pulled the bullet the other day it was loaded with nitro powder the head is AP as you can see the steal core in the base, the primer looks black but looking at it in a different light it could be purple as you say its a strange one perhaps Tony E could help on this one.
Cheers
Andy
Cheers
Andy
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A few further thoughts on this. The Dutch .303 AP rounds I have from the 1930s (nothing as early as 1926) had red tips when they were made, but the paint has mostly come off by now, so look closely at the tip to see if there is any sign it might have been coloured at some time. They have h/s with H followed by the date, where the H is for Hirtenberger, who had a factory at Dordrecht. What the V stands for I do not know, but it would not be a Mk. No.
Also, from your photo, the annulus colour looks black, but that might not be relevant, as for most countries that made .303 the annulus varnish/paint was only there as a sealant, rather than an indication of the type of bullet, which was usually indicated by tip colour.
I will be seeing some Dutch .303 collectors next weekend, and will ask them.
In the meantime, if you want it to go to a good home...:tinysmile_shy_t:
Also, from your photo, the annulus colour looks black, but that might not be relevant, as for most countries that made .303 the annulus varnish/paint was only there as a sealant, rather than an indication of the type of bullet, which was usually indicated by tip colour.
I will be seeing some Dutch .303 collectors next weekend, and will ask them.
In the meantime, if you want it to go to a good home...:tinysmile_shy_t:
Thanks ydnum303, i have had a good look at the tip and can't see any colour at all, i did wonder at one point if someone had made it up but the head must be original as you can see the indents on the head made from the crimps and they line up with the case so i am convinced its original,it would be nice to see what your dutch friends have to say, i have a unfired case i will dig out with the same head stamp you can have but no head.
Cheers
Andy
Cheers
Andy
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Many thanks Andy, that would be great! Hopefully we will have a definitive answer for you on this after next weekend. (In addition to TonyE [who I suspect is in USA for the SLICS show], I know a couple of other .303 experts, but they are also away until next weekend!)
Hi ydnum303, i have sent you a PM regarding the spare case.
Andy
Andy
Falcon
Well-Known Member
I was told by TonyE that these were made in Lithuania in 1926 for their Lewis Guns they were supplied with after WW1. They copied the British made .303 rounds they were supplied with exactly to produce this round. Apparently these were first seen in about 2003 in a batch of surplus ammo from the Baltic States, and alot of people at the time thought they were British. Apparently they are found in Ball and AP loadings.
Thanks Falcon that seems to have sorted that one out.
cheers
Andy
cheers
Andy
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Lithuanian .303
I am just back from the International Ammunition Assoc. show in St.Louis so I missed the start of this thread.
These were virtually unknown until a couple of years ago when a load of ammunition came in from the Baltic area. The "H 26 V" was mixed in with these and there were both ball and AP rounds, both copies of the equivalent British bullets as far as one can see. I have not sectioned any. To judge how unusual these are, Bill Woodin did not have the AP version.
It is 90+% certain these are Lithuanian, but until a more definite identification is found there is a small possibility that they could be Latvian/Estonian.
In addition to the Latvian headstamp with the stylised "V", there are also .303 made by Sellier & Bellot in Riga during the 1930s. These typically have the "S B 1934 R" headstamp and show up in both ball and tracer.
As others have pointed out, when trying to identify a headstamp it is necessary to look at the context and when certain factories made ammunition. National Brass and Copper only made a very small contract in 1916 for the British, so will not have made a 1926 dated round. (It took me nearly forty years to find an original one). Similarly, there would not have been a British ball Mark V made in 1926.
Regards
TonyE
PS ... and please stop calling bullets "heads"!
I am just back from the International Ammunition Assoc. show in St.Louis so I missed the start of this thread.
These were virtually unknown until a couple of years ago when a load of ammunition came in from the Baltic area. The "H 26 V" was mixed in with these and there were both ball and AP rounds, both copies of the equivalent British bullets as far as one can see. I have not sectioned any. To judge how unusual these are, Bill Woodin did not have the AP version.
It is 90+% certain these are Lithuanian, but until a more definite identification is found there is a small possibility that they could be Latvian/Estonian.
In addition to the Latvian headstamp with the stylised "V", there are also .303 made by Sellier & Bellot in Riga during the 1930s. These typically have the "S B 1934 R" headstamp and show up in both ball and tracer.
As others have pointed out, when trying to identify a headstamp it is necessary to look at the context and when certain factories made ammunition. National Brass and Copper only made a very small contract in 1916 for the British, so will not have made a 1926 dated round. (It took me nearly forty years to find an original one). Similarly, there would not have been a British ball Mark V made in 1926.
Regards
TonyE
PS ... and please stop calling bullets "heads"!
Hi Tony E, Thanks for your help identifying this round, i also have the "S B 1936 R" which came with the same job lot.
Regards
Andy
Regards
Andy