What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

30mm. What is this thing?

D

DEADLINE222

Well-Known Member
30mm HEI

The projectile, from tip of fuze to base is around 110mm.

The casing is 110mm long.

Been searching for awhile, and the closest thing I see would be the ADEN.

30HEI.jpg
 
Aden cases are 113 long so check you measurements again.
There are about 7 or 8 variants/manufacturers of this round & the projectile you have does not look typical for a British made (RG) aden.
Is there anything stamped on the belt or in the extraction rim?
I assume there is no headstamp?
 
Hi Deadline
Well I am sure it`s a 30 x 113B round (the excessive crimping to make it a training/display round may account for the missing 1mm??!!) but again, not sure it is an Aden cannon one due to projectile.
The US version is M230 I think? as used on the Apache but I have only ever seen alloy cases for this round?
As I said there are several different makers of this caliber for different guns so different projectiles accordingly.
Sorry I cannot narrow down the field of play anymore.
 
@ Siegfried. Yes DEFA did make a 30 x 113B round exactly the same as the Aden for the 551 & 553 Cannons.
Like I said the 30 x 113B case has been made/used by at least 7 or 8 other manufacturers on guns other than the Aden as to whether an Aden round would work in other guns is another issue??!
I think the US M39 uses this round but not sure if that is the Apaches one??
Ordman - yep that projectile looks the same profile as Deadlines one, so as I said, different makers, same case, different projectiles.
 
DEFA are a French lot by the way!!
As far as I know Radway Green were the only makers of Aden rounds 30 x 113B. I think the Aden cannon was a BAe developed weapon & RG became part of BAe?
 
The US did experiments with these (as this one is) with a varietey of guns as far as I know. This one is definately not meant for the M230. Since it is a US round and I do not recall the weapons I wonder if we should call it DEFA or ADEN at this point.
The M39, if we mean the same, is chambered in 20x102.
 
As there are still several other manufacturers it is what it is - a 30 x 113B case round, as specific name for Deadlines round is obviously not going to happen. Especially as it looks as though he has a T239 projectile fitted to a DEFA or Aden or whoever 30 x 113B case.
This might help a bit. It also backs up my point about interchangeability/compatibility.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/30mm%20cannon.htm
 
hicky1300 said:
DEFA are a French lot by the way!!
As far as I know Radway Green were the only makers of Aden rounds 30 x 113B. I think the Aden cannon was a BAe developed weapon & RG became part of BAe?
Click to expand...

Both Kynoch and Greenwood & Batley made British Aden H.V. rounds and Kynoch also made L.V. rounds.

Regards
TonyE
 
hicky1300 said:
DEFA are a French lot by the way!!
As far as I know Radway Green were the only makers of Aden rounds 30 x 113B. I think the Aden cannon was a BAe developed weapon & RG became part of BAe?[/Q

Sorry was going to say the same as TonyE,missed his answer on the second page:tinysmile_cry_t2:


Tony
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I should also have added that the ADEN gun had nothing to do with BAe. It was jointly developed by the Armament Research and Development Establishment and RSAF ENfield, thus giving the name "ADEN".

The ADEN was a British development of the German MK213/30 in the immediate post war period, coming into service (L.V. Version) in 1953. BAE did not come into existence until the 1970s when several of the aircraft manufacturers merged.

Regards
TonyE
 
Last edited:
Its not a round for the aden ,defa or american long cased t252 as all three had one thing in common an overall round length of about 199 mm including the aden LV round in fact all adens irrespective of case length have remained the same overall length.The case looks to be an aden case but the projectile is about 24mm too long, mick
 
I have usually seen the Aden cases described as 30x111B whereas the DEFA and US cases are described as 30x113B.
Interesting that your case is 112mm.
My two Aden cases are between 111 and 111.5mm in length.
Not shortened.
 
EOD said:
We should keep in mind that interchangeability is not based on the shape of the case. A wide spread error.
Click to expand...

Indeed. This not only applies to the Aden/DEFA/M230 trio, but also the Oerlikon KCA/GAU-8 30x173 rounds and the three different ranges of Russian 30x165 ammo (one for each service).

This can lead to some oddities, for instance in Russian helicopter guns. The Mi-24P carries a twin-barrelled GSh-30K, while the Mi-28 (and Ka-50 family) has a single-barrel 2A42. Both use 30x165 ammo, but the GSh-30K is an air force gun and therefore uses electrically-primed ammo, while the 2A42 is an army gun with percussion-primed ammo.
 
Tony Williams said:
Indeed. This not only applies to the Aden/DEFA/M230 trio, but also the Oerlikon KCA/GAU-8 30x173 rounds and the three different ranges of Russian 30x165 ammo (one for each service).

This can lead to some oddities, for instance in Russian helicopter guns. The Mi-24P carries a twin-barrelled GSh-30K, while the Mi-28 (and Ka-50 family) has a single-barrel 2A42. Both use 30x165 ammo, but the GSh-30K is an air force gun and therefore uses electrically-primed ammo, while the 2A42 is an army gun with percussion-primed ammo.
Click to expand...


Correct, and the same with 23x115 cartridges for the NR-23 and NS-23 which can be fired from AM-23 and GSh-23 but not vice versa.
 
Of course, this is not a new issue: the Luftwaffe had the same problem with rounds in percussion and electric-primed variants during WW2, with the 20mm MG 151 being the main example, and the 30x184B ammo in the MK 101 and MK 103 also differing in priming.
 
Also the French HS9 in 20x110RR comes to my mind which's ammo was different from regular Oerlikons and was not interchangeable.

And not to forget all the small arms calibers withe the same issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top