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37mm FT-17 tank rounds

BMG50

BMG50

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am after a 37mm cannon round that would be used in the Renualt FT-17 tank or the similar American six ton tank. I know that there were different cannon types used in this tank of the same calibre, what would i need to look out for? Where they all the same in case length? Any particular markings etc? What do these rounds usualy fetch? Can anyone help out.
 
Look at my page of French types in 37mm and U.S. types. Basically you want the most common types around. Cheap and easy to find. The French Mle 1888 PD common shell and the U.S. MKl Steel Shell. Look on Gunbroker and now and again ebay or Specialist auctions.
 
Thanks for the information. I take it I would be looking for the 37mm x94 but marked 37mm x84 on the case. I did see one on e-gun but got outbid on a nice French one, but still looking. Are there any books out there on this type of round and the cannons which fired them. There's quite a lot of info an this forum, didn't relise that there were that many types. I do look on the sites mentioned Ebay and SA but nothing of late. Usualy the shows turn up quite a few.
 
Yes, it's the 37x94R you will be looking for. This was available in a vast range of loadings, at least one of them in the 1930s which would not be appropriate.

The headstamp often (but not always) include "37-85" but the 85 refers to 1885 when it was introduced, not the case length.
 
37mm Tank rounds as per 1918 list

This is the 1918 listing for 37mm in Tanks and what they look like, hope it helps.
The D shells are used without the tracer in the base. Double reaction is a description of the fuze type.

Left to right (top to bottom on list)
Mle 1908 canister (has letter M on the tip)
LCM canister
Mle 1916 HE
Mle 1892 penetrating LE
Mle 1916 Ogival - solid shot
D shell HE with sensitive fuze ( double reaction type not shown) no tracer
D shell HE base fuzed
Mle 1888 common shell LE

I also added the U.S. kinds, nobody has an example of the canister that know of.

Hope this helps
 

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Thanks Guys. I had two of these rounds a few years ago, but didn't relate them to the FT tank just to being pom pom ammo used during WW1 for an anti aircraft gun. I usually collect German mine stuff but my interest in 37mm rounds has been rekindled thanks to you guys and reading up on your past threads on the subject. Looks like there are a lot to collect, i did start with this mentioned before as a good example but lost the bid. What do you think of this example.37mm85.jpg37mm856.jpg
 
Looks like a nice clean example, the solid shot and common shell will be easy to find. The Mle 1892 a little more difficult and empty 1908 canisters are around.
 
The 37mm M1916 trench gun which was also used in the FT tanks which had the rotating breech and was used as a spotting piece on large field guns during ww2, i take it that this used a similar round or was the case length longer than the 37x94.
 
In WW2 the MKll former HE projectile was black powder filled and painted blue, the AT gun HE M63 was also treated the same and painted blue and the M92 was introduced which was the end of the line. The French cases are 37 x 94 the U.S. cases are 37 x 92. U.S. made 37mm ammunition apparently was not used in France during WW1, so it's the French ammunition in French tanks and guns in France and U.S. ammunition in U.S. made 6 ton tanks and 1916 gun, copy of the french one. The Tanks were not exact copies.
 
Tony,all
How much data do we have on the WW2 rounds in french tanks, as you know I have a few French rounds, but sadly not enough information

  • Was there a list of loadings used in the Renault FT-17, R-35 and Hotchkiss H-35 during WW2, as they all used the same 37mm SA18 L/21 gun
  • Did the Germans manufacture 37mm rounds, or simply use captured French stock perhaps with painted German markings?
  • Does anyone have details of penetration performance, quantities manufactured, date of first and last use of these rounds etc?
I'll post a few pictures of the few rounds I have when I get a chance as Id like confirmation they are what I think they are!

Cheers
Rich
 
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The best-known of the new rounds specially developed for tank use in the 1930s was the Mle 1935 API, which featured a hardened steel core within a magnesium sleeve (which ignited on impact). See pic from my website below. The projectile weighed 390 g and it was fired at 600 m/s.

Other ammo used in these guns was HE Mle 1916, APHE 1892-1924, and Shrapnel Mle 1918-1908.

SubcalAmmo2.jpg
 
The 37mm cannon rounds used in FT tanks were most probaly all the 37mmx 94mm type size because of the very limited space in the turret. Using a long 37mm x 2633b pictured by Tony would cause loading problems
 
It's only the 37x94R shown in the picture that was used in these guns. The other rounds shown aren't even French (complete list below):

20x138B (German 2 cm Kwk 30/38 APCR), 28x187R (German 28/20mm PzB 41 - Gerlich squeezebore), 37x94R (French 37mm Mle 1935 APCR), 37x249R (German 3,7 cm PaK 36 Pzgr.40), 37x263B (German BK 3,7 Pzgr.40), 40x304R (British 2 pdr APSV Mk 1: Littlejohn squeezebore) ​
 
Thanks for the info Tony and Gspragge.

Here are my two 37mm APCR Perforant modle 1935 (rhs) and 1937 (lhs). Both have a bit of filler sadly, but do at least show the two rounds.
Does anyone know if these projectiles were used in the slightly larger 37x149R 37mm Mle1938 cases for the 37mm SA38 L/33 gun?....indeed were they more likely used in the more powerful gun in 1940?

French 37mm Hardcore.jpg

Also, in the spirit of asking multiple questions in one post, does anyone know if these three projectiles were used in the shorter 37x94R case used in the SA18 gun in the FT-17, R-35 and H-35 tanks

French 37mm FT17 Projectiles.jpg

Here's detail of the first projectile
French 37mm APHE.jpg

Cheers
Rich
 
The Mle 1892 penetrating was also used in the 37x202 case , the Mle 1916 only in the 37x95.
 
RichardB said:
Here are my two 37mm APCR Perforant modle 1935 (rhs) and 1937 (lhs). Both have a bit of filler sadly, but do at least show the two rounds.
Does anyone know if these projectiles were used in the slightly larger 37x149R 37mm Mle1938 cases for the 37mm SA38 L/33 gun?....indeed were they more likely used in the more powerful gun in 1940?
Click to expand...

My main source on the French 20-47mm ammunition is a translation of the document "Renseigements Sur Les Munitions De Petits Calibres" dated April 1940. This does not show the steel+magnesium type API construction being used in any other case than the 37x94R.

Incidentally, the drawing in the document labelled AP Mle 1935 actually looks a lot more like the Mle 1937 - but it's on a page which is headed: "Munitions pour materiel de chars de 37mm S.A. Mle 1918 M37".

That source does contains at least one omission: the ammunition for the Schneider Mle 1930 automatic AA gun, of which some 20 mountings were in service at the start of WW2, defending Paris I believe. From another source I am aware that the case was 300mm long, and I know the projectile weight and muzzle velocity, but that's about it!
 
Just to add mine in its' glory. Cheers, Y'all. Bruce.
 

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Does anyone have this document - Renseigements Sur Les Munitions De Petits Calibres - 1940

Richard
 
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