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3pr tank

2pounder

2pounder

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Talking to Quatermas the other day about 3pr rounds and a question arose to which I thought I knew the answer. Was the 3pr tank case the same as the naval case ie 47 x 376R? I thought it was and have a drawing of the AP round by Tony Debski showing a case marked 3PR IV 1944 with no N for the navy. I have a case similar dated 1941. Does anyone know if the tank case was 376mm, were they stamped 3pr 2cwt, were they a different size, was there two different tank rounds? thanks. 2pr
 
The 3pr 2cwt is a completely different round/case. Case length is 350mm and the cases are marked 3pr 2cwt. I'll try to post a picture tomorrow and I have a question of my own.

Best

BD
 
There is also a 3 Pdr Vickers case, that is bigger than the standard Navy case.
 
3 Pr Vickers cases

Yes please....i would be very interested to see pictures of the 47x350 case.....and further dimensions such as rim diameter etc.....Thanks , Charley
 
3pr

Thanks for the info on the 3pr tank round. However as usual more questions come up. The 3pr 47x376R was pretty old by WWII standards and does not feature in Hoggs book on coast defence and the 1936 Text book gives it as obsolete for Imperial land service, a quick look in the 1945 Naval handbook does not show it. So why have a land service case made in 1941?, why have naval practice shot made in 1945, why land service practice shot Mk 1/L in 1943? I have nothing showing it was used as sub cal. training. Did the tank round feature a pionted AP shot without tracer very much in profile like the practice shot? If not I've got another puzzle. 2pr
 
2pounder said:
Thanks for the info on the 3pr tank round. However as usual more questions come up. The 3pr 47x376R was pretty old by WWII standards and does not feature in Hoggs book on coast defence and the 1936 Text book gives it as obsolete for Imperial land service, a quick look in the 1945 Naval handbook does not show it. So why have a land service case made in 1941?, why have naval practice shot made in 1945, why land service practice shot Mk 1/L in 1943? I have nothing showing it was used as sub cal. training. Did the tank round feature a pionted AP shot without tracer very much in profile like the practice shot? If not I've got another puzzle. 2pr
Click to expand...

So many questions (which I can't answer!!). I have attached a picture of the 3pr varients - from left to right, 3pr 2cwt, standard 3pr and the Vickers for size comparison. The second picture is the base of the 3pr 2cwt case with primer removed. The standard 3pr case and projectile are both second war dated.

Now my question - does anyone have any information as to what type of projectiles were used in the 3pr 2cwt case? The one in mine is correct for the round but is missing it's screw cap. Was this made of magnesium to spot a hit? It is a strange construction unlike any other 3pr projectile I have seen. Any further information greatly appreciated.

BD
 

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3pr 2cwt

Looking through the 1936 Textbook on ammunition it mentions: HE AP shell. MkI being fuzed Hotchkiss base, later Mks fuzed No.280. and Practice shell. Nothing about strange capped shot nor my solid AP. 2pr
 
2pounder said:
Looking through the 1936 Textbook on ammunition it mentions: HE AP shell. MkI being fuzed Hotchkiss base, later Mks fuzed No.280. and Practice shell. Nothing about strange capped shot nor my solid AP. 2pr
Click to expand...

Is it possible your solid AP is actually AP Practice?

The strange capped shot is the Practice Mk I.
A Hotchkiss base fuse initiated a bursting charge of black powder and the resulting cloud of smoke indicated the fall of shot. the cap was made of cast iron.
 
3pr

Quatermass, as I said I liked visits as questions get asked and the answers sought, think lots of us are learning on this thread.

My pointed one could well be practice but all the smaller calibre practice shot I've seen have a trunkated tip except the 2pr atk APP. 2pr
 
The information I have states the following ammunition was issued:
2 x AP shell, AP practice, 2 X practice, canister & drill.

My money would be on you having the AP practice shot Clive.
 
2pounder said:
Quatermass, as I said I liked visits as questions get asked and the answers sought, think lots of us are learning on this thread.

My pointed one could well be practice but all the smaller calibre practice shot I've seen have a trunkated tip except the 2pr atk APP. 2pr
Click to expand...

Exactly what markings does your proj have on it Clive?

D
 
3pdr 2cwt

Hi BD, there is a thread on this already about the interwar 3pdr ammo, i have the same practice projectile as you,but minus the cap,this was i believe made of thin steel and never survives,which is why even the tank museum dont have a complete example in there collection. I cant find the thread though????????? Tig:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
 
tigbrand said:
Hi BD, there is a thread on this already about the interwar 3pdr ammo, i have the same practice projectile as you,but minus the cap,this was i believe made of thin steel and never survives,which is why even the tank museum dont have a complete example in there collection. I cant find the thread though????????? Tig:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
Click to expand...

Hi Tig,

Co-incidently I couldn't find the thread until last night. Here it is http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/3lb-2cwt-practice-t3706.html?t=3706&highlight=3pr+2cwt. From Q's detail I guess the cap was blown off when the black powder charge was set off. I have only ever seen a fired proj - anyone have an unfired one?

BD
 
3pr shot

Sadly no markings on my shot as it has extensive light corrosion. Looking at it its too pointed to be AP, as similar sizes are more rounded. The 1936 ammunition handbook for the royal army service corps mentions a cannister round but then it also mentions .8in ammunition which I didn't think went into service. 2pr
 
3pdr

Hi, Bd,i have never seen an unfired 3pdr 2cwt projectile either,i have 2,one relic and one mint bare metal fired. They are scarce things and your case is the first ive ever seen. As for the caps yes they blew off it seems. Clive, ref, 3pdr naval practice ammo,im sure the 3pdr was used as a sub caliber device,i cant remember where i saw the info though. We have all owned one of the rebanded 3pdr practice shot dated 1943.These must have been made for that purpose?? they are threaded for a tracer. My ww2 dated 3pdr IV cases are all made by ICI, are there any more known makers? and did ICI marked cases only get used in naval service? More Qs,any answers? Tig:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
 
3pdr Hotchkiss QF Marks I, II

Introduced in 1886 for mounting where 6pdr (57mm) guns were considered to be too heavy. Many were later used as subcalibre and as saluting guns. The last use meant that 550 Mk I and 91 I* mountings survived with 31 HA Mk IV, and these were supplemented by new Mk V and a few Mk VI mountings and conversions of Mk I and I* to 50 degree elevation. The 3pdr Hotchkiss was carried by MLs and many minor auxiliary warships. HA Mk IV mountings were limited to harbour-defence craft and Mk VI to APVs

Source: Naval weapons of WW2. John Campbell.
 
3pdr

Cheers Q,thats opened a can of worms! I collect 2 and 3pdr naval bits but have limited time and ref material. any more pics and info would be appreciated from any members of usage in British naval or Land service of these weapons. Still need to know about ICI manufactured cases, naval only?? Cheers tig.
 
3pr

The rebanded 3pr with tracer is like mine but they have a flat tip and are marked N. I've a similar one marked /L as well as the pointed one.

ICI made :18pr 1935,41. 40L60 in '42. 17pr '45. 4.5G '41, 4in MKX,XV '40 as well as 3pr N in '39. and before anyone asks I haven't examples of them all.2pr
 
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