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4.5-inch shell

Y

ydnum303

Well-Known Member
Hi All,

I have a shell for the modern 4.5" Naval gun. The body is stamped as follows:-

619

48 LBS 1 OZ 2 DRS

4.5 IN

BAL N1 FS

RLB 2 / 69 LOT 2

It is inert-filled with a hard pink clay-like substance, and appears to have been painted an olive drab colour. Although there were traces of yellow stencils, wear and surface rust have rendered these unreadable.

I have never seen a shell this large stamped with its weight down to the nearest dram, - very precise! Also have never seen one stamped "BAL" for its function; HE, SMK, B.E., and P, yes, have seen all these, and they are mentioned in the 1960 version of the Joint Services publication on projectile markings.

Can anyone give me any information about this, please? Is it some sort of Proof projectile? What does "BAL" stand for? Presumably not Ball, but perhaps Ballistic something? Was this some sort of Trials round for the Mk.8 gun introduced in the 1970s? Any idea of what the markings would have been?

Any help gratefully received.

Thanks in advance,
Roger.
 
need some help

4.5 001.jpgneed some help with this one , need some pics of the prodgy on this one , its Ran . Some say its fixed and some say not but need a pic either way ,cant find much on the net or maybe not looking in the right place,thanks
 

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While we're at it, does anyone have a picture of the projectile for this threaded casing and how it attached? Thanks in advance, Pat
 
Not sure what your question is Murray!!??
This though is a case for the 4,5 inch gun Marks 3 through to & including 5.
Made 1991 with unified thread (three joined circles) primer
 
Witchitaslumlord,

The round is separate loaded, using an auto loader. The screw top of the cart case holds a lead/tin (for decoppering) closing cap which is threaded to match. There is also a plastic cap, these caps serve to keep the propellant dry.

There are projectiles around for the 4.5" gun that have a crimp groove between the driving band & base & some without. The ones with crimp groove were meant for fixed rounds but can be used for separate loaded.

Regards Ozzi.
 
Yes, I suppose "BAL" could stand for Ballast, hadn't thought of that, but seems a bit odd to have the weight of the (presumably empty) body given down to the nearest 1/16th of an ounce. With the weight of the inert filling added they would have a very accurate idea of the total weight of shell in the magazine, but would they need it so precise? Would the total weight be then stencilled on the shell? Has anyone seen such an item? Unfortunately, rust and wear over the years have obliterated all the stencilled markings, so cannot tell.

Roger.
 
Murray

Please can you post a better photo of the case base . Am sure I will be able to help you

Steve EX RNAD Trecwn
 
murray said:
View attachment 106863need some help with this one , need some pics of the prodgy on this one , its Ran . Some say its fixed and some say not but need a pic either way ,cant find much on the net or maybe not looking in the right place,thanks
Click to expand...
Murray,

As others have said, this case is not for the Mark 8 gun which used fixed ammunition. The earlier guns were loaded with separate shell and case of cordite, up to and including the 4.5 inch Mark 6 twin mounting. The case has expanded above the shoulder when it was fired, the threaded neck was parallel before firing. The thread of the tin cap was coated with a sealant before being screwed into the neck of the case. The tin melted as it followed the shell up the bore, occasionally small pieces of tin were blown back onto the ship, they had an impression of the base of the shell on one side. The molten tin combined with residues of copper from the driving band and reduced the copper deposits in the bore. The shell weight was nominally 55 Lbs, that for the Mark 8 gun is around 36 Lbs I think.

gravelbelly
 
Photos of shell

52 4.5in. shell1.JPG53 4.5in shell2.jpg54 4.5in shell3.jpgHi all those who wanted photos. As you can see, the shell has the stampings as described, and it is the same length (within a mm or two) as the (inert) HE shell I have. Crimping groove at the base, so presumably for the Mk.8 gun.

I now expect to see loads of further info in this thread to tell me all about this hell and its purpose!!!

Regards,
Roger.
 
ydnum303 said:
View attachment 106925View attachment 106926View attachment 106927Hi all those who wanted photos. As you can see, the shell has the stampings as described, and it is the same length (within a mm or two) as the (inert) HE shell I have. Crimping groove at the base, so presumably for the Mk.8 gun.

I now expect to see loads of further info in this thread to tell me all about this hell and its purpose!!!

Regards,
Roger.
Click to expand...

Roger,

I doubt if it is for the Mark 8 gun, a) it is too heavy, and b) the Mark 8 fixed rounds have three crimps, one above each other. The ramming stroke for the Mark 8 gun is very fast and without the three heavy crimps the shell will pull out of the case as the case rim stops. The earlier 4.5" naval rounds were fixed ammo too, but with a single crimp ring and when the fixed round was abandoned for separate shell and cordite the shells continued to have the single crimp groove machined into them. The guns that I worked with on HMS Eagle (long gone to scrap) used separate shell and cordite but all of the maintenance handbooks still showed fixed ammo.

I believe that the change from fixed to separate loading was to do with the weight of the fixed round, about 85 pounds and top heavy. It is easier, and faster, to load shell and cordite into the loading tray separately. The Mark 8 cartridge is much lighter to handle.

gravelbelly
 
Minenaz, the length of the shell is 477mm from base to mouth.

Dave, thanks for the info on the Mk.8 round. Have seen quite a few cases, but not seen one of the shells with 3 crimping grooves. Al the ones I have seen either have 1 or no grooves.
The info I have for the weight of the shells indicates that the one for the Mk.8 is 46 lbs, whilst that for the earlier guns as 54 lbs. This one being just over 48 lbs, perhaps they were trying out different weights to see which gave the optimal performance.

Roger.
 
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