40/60 Bofor HELP with details please.

[Notam2]

Hi, can anyone help with the Manufacturer of this 40mm Bofor? The dates are pretty spread out, very interesting early case:

The brass case is 40/60 1929 cannot find the maker DM2 or LOS DN ??? DN2 was not operating in 1929. allegedly.
Inside the projectile date 1956
The actual projectile is a 40/70 (SX 5.55 PAT LOT 5 M!.707 LB) no idea what all that means.
The primer is 1979.
It is clearly made up of bits collected over the years, however all in reasonable nick and looks good on display. Paid far to much for it £27 still sometimes you just have to have something.
Any details will be greatly appreciated.

 

[TimG]

The projectile was made by ROF Patricroft to drawing SX555
The Tracer and Igniter, Shell, No. 14, Mk. 6. Might have been made by ROF Maltby (but I think they were long closed by 1956) if not Maltby then Richard M. Lord Ltd. Filled by ROF Chorley in November '56..
The case is not British.

TimG

 

[Notam2]

The projectile was made by ROF Patricroft to drawing SX555
The Tracer and Igniter, Shell, No. 14, Mk. 6. Might have been made by ROF Maltby (but I think they were long closed by 1956) if not Maltby then Richard M. Lord Ltd. Filled by ROF Chorley in November '56..
The case is not British.

TimG

Thanks for that, I had no Idea that it had a tracer, fascinating this will give me something else to research. As you can tell I am quite new to this.
I wonder what country the case came from.
Thanks again.

 

[smle2009]

Germany................

 

[ozziammo]

Your round is basically a complete 40/70 BOFORS, it is post WWII. A 40/60 Bofors cartridge will be 311mm long as opposed to 365mm for the 40/70. As previously mentioned the cartridge case is of German manufacture.
40/70 refers to the calibre(40mm) & the 70, refers to the barrel length in calibre's, so the length of barrel is 40mm X 70. This is to distinguish it from the older wartime 40/60!

 

[Darkman]

The Tracer and Igniter, Shell, No. 14, Mk. 6. Might have been made by ROF Maltby (but I think they were long closed by 1956) if not Maltby then Richard M. Lord Ltd. TimG

Interesting Tim.

I have seen 20mm cartridge cases marked "RML" '50 and '52, and presumed these were made by ROF Maltby. Information I have says Richard M. Lord monogram was "RM/L".

 

[Notam2]

Your round is basically a complete 40/70 BOFORS, it is post WWII. A 40/60 Bofors cartridge will be 311mm long as opposed to 365mm for the 40/70. As previously mentioned the cartridge case is of German manufacture.
40/70 refers to the calibre(40mm) & the 70, refers to the barrel length in calibre's, so the length of barrel is 40mm X 70. This is to distinguish it from the older wartime 40/60!

The cartridge is 365mm confirming it is 40/70, what confused me was, what appears to be a 29 where the date usually is. I can only find DN2 LOS DN on Italian Oto Melara cases. At least it appears to be a matched unit.

DM	Des Moines Ordnance Plant, Des Moines, Iowa	2
DM	Deutsche Waffen-u. Munitionsfabriken A.-G., , Früher Lorenz , Karlsruhe, Germany	1

Which one???? I assume it's the German one, however how can I be certain. Cannot find reference to DN at all.

 

[orpheus72]

DM 2 stands for 'Deutsches Modell 2' , the production plant is DN (Diehl GmbH & Co, Neurnberg, Germany).

 

[Notam2]

DM 2 stands for 'Deutsches Modell 2' , the production plant is DN (Diehl GmbH & Co, Neurnberg, Germany).

Thanks! that's the info I needed. Thank you all for taking the time to identify this item.

Best Wishes Trev.

 

[TimG]

It transpires the ROF Maltby was operating as late as June 1958 when it was being run down (Hansard). Although built as a small arms factory, they made the best part of 3/4 million No.4 rifles during WWII, I haven't found any post war figures. Like a number of other ROFs they diversified post war or maybe before. It could be said the 'M' of 'RML' is of a different font and apparently one of the identifiers of a Maltby manufactured No.4s is a stylised 'M' stamping.

Darkman,
Would like to see a photo' of you 20mm headstamps. The various listings I have for Richard M. Lord show no solidus, but that doesn't mean to say they didn't use one!

TimG

 

[Darkman]

Tim,

"RML" headstamp and also on a Bofors fuze.

Do you think these are ROF Maltby or Richard M. Lord, the safe makers of Wolverhampton? Are you aware of what items each factory made?

I would have thought that that DoD munitions contracts with private companies would have ceased at the end of the war and they would have returned to making their pre-war products. Possibly may have lingered for a few years for some items, but not as late as 1953 unless they became a Gov't factory?

Regards, Graeme.

 

[TimG]

Graeme,

I would think Maltby for both. I don't have a break down of items made by each, other than a inaccurate guide listing fuzes and shell for Maltby. With respect to the shell listing I think it was more a case of shell components - but I'll check the contracts to see if they throw anymore light on the matter.

Is that 20mm solid? in the absence of a D or U in the headstamp I assume it's a ballast round - don't know if they were made in 20mm.

Many private companies had contracts through the 50s, 60s and later.

TimG

 

[Darkman]

Tim,

The 20mm is a drill round. There are 2 - 1950 and 1952 - marked drill Mk 2 and drill Mk 3 (one is chromed steel with removable steel head/base, the other is chromed brass with removable steel head/base).

Incidentally it was a WW2 era 2 pdr anti-tank cartridge case stamped "RM/L" that I posted on BOCN and was subsequently identified as made by Richard M. Lord.

Graeme

 

[TimG]

Graeme,

I found that post and it was me that incorrectly identified it as Richard M. Lord. I'm sure that 'L' should be a 'C' making it RM/C - Robert Mitchell, Canada, a major manufacturer of cartridge cases. Also noted that I've erroneously attributed a number of other items to being manufactured by Lord when in all probality they were made by Maltby.

TimG.

 

[smle2009]

RML was also used on the MkI 20x110 drill round,my example is RML 49 20MM, according to Labbetts TAG series 2 pamphlet 6, RML along with JES & LG,who also made drill/dummy rounds, are unknown manufacturers.
Tim...ballast rounds were made in 20x110 Hispano and were hollowed out alloy fitted with a plug in the head,they were marked DCMT 55 BALLAST in a groove on the side of the case in the same style as the 30mm Aden ballast round.

Tony

 

[Darkman]

Graeme,

I found that post and it was me that incorrectly identified it as Richard M. Lord. I'm sure that 'L' should be a 'C' making it RM/C - Robert Mitchell, Canada, a major manufacturer of cartridge cases. Also noted that I've erroneously attributed a number of other items to being manufactured by Lord when in all probality they were made by Maltby.

TimG.

Tim,

I'm pretty sure it was RM/L and not C for Canada. I'll have to try and get a photo if I can locate it.

 

[smle2009]

I have done a bit more checking and RML,JES & LG were not ammunition manufactures per sa but outside contractors who only made drill/dummy rounds and either these manufactures codes were 'lost' or never recorded....so we may never know who made these drill/dummy rounds

Tony

 

[TimG]

JES is no trace, LG - Landis & Gyr Ltd.

Tony,
Does Labbett give any explanation as to why the bases were threaded?

TimG

 

[Darkman]

JES is no trace, LG - Landis & Gyr Ltd.

Tony,
Does Labbett give any explanation as to why the bases were threaded?

TimG

I think it would be to add a suitable material to approximate the weight of a genuine round.

 

[Darkman]

What did Richard M. Lord make then? As a metal working factory (safes and locks), presumably cartridge cases? I know ROF Maltby made small arms ammo (as I have seen .303 cases marked RML and R.M.L.) and fuzes as per the WW2 fuze maker list. I have also heard of factories having the same monogram, but not usually confused, as they made significantly different items. Seems these 2 factories made similar things? I'm confused. Or are we getting the monograms wrong? Have people just assumed that Richard M. Lord is RML - perhaps it's something else?