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5000 STG44 captured in Syria
- Thread starter kz11gr
- Start date
Falcon
Well-Known Member
How many StG 44s were actually made? There seem to be enough of them still left around in the world, as they were found in Iraq as well. I believe Yugolavian Paratroopers also used them into the 1980s.
Also, notice the top rated comment:
"$20 says these idiots tried loading 7.62x39 in these"
Also, notice the top rated comment:
"$20 says these idiots tried loading 7.62x39 in these"
Sure , all day long , the only words these donkeys can say is " allah akbar" and nothing else .... then if the difference between a 7,62 and a 7,92 kurz is not written in the coran , it means that it is allowed !
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Another thread discussing these rifles indicates that they were retained in government aresenals after the creation of puppet state of East Germany. I recall seeing B&W photos from the late 40s or 50s of East German troops parading with these guns (communists of the era adored military parades).
I understand that during the 1970s, the East Germans "sold" these guns to Syria (certainly on orders from Moscow). Many were later found by coalition forces in Iraq - which is not surprising considering both countries followed the "baath" party movement of the time & Syria would certainly have been nervous about events in the neighboring country. There is also the possibility that they were diverted to the Shiite majority in Iraq for various reasons.
I understand that during the 1970s, the East Germans "sold" these guns to Syria (certainly on orders from Moscow). Many were later found by coalition forces in Iraq - which is not surprising considering both countries followed the "baath" party movement of the time & Syria would certainly have been nervous about events in the neighboring country. There is also the possibility that they were diverted to the Shiite majority in Iraq for various reasons.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Nearly half a million Stg 44 were made by the end of WW2. Not so well known in the west, as most of them seem to have gone to the eastern front. Postwar, a lot of them ended up in Yugoslavia, which still held them as reserve stocks until the 1980s. I understand they also had loads of ammo components which they made up as needed.
Prvi Partizan started making the ammo again quite recently, so there must be a market for it somewhere.
Stg 44s are very valuable to collectors, although if 5000 of them come onto the market that will depress the value a lot!
Prvi Partizan started making the ammo again quite recently, so there must be a market for it somewhere.
Stg 44s are very valuable to collectors, although if 5000 of them come onto the market that will depress the value a lot!
V40
Well-Known Member
Didn't they find a larger cache in Iraq? Also, a company here in the US is making the STG44 from what I understand. It will only be offered in semi-auto only.
I have read allot about the AK-47/74 for a number of years and I still say that Mr. Kalashnikov copied the STG44 in a few ways to make his babies.
I have read allot about the AK-47/74 for a number of years and I still say that Mr. Kalashnikov copied the STG44 in a few ways to make his babies.
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Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
I imagine the maker of that gun is fervently hoping the cache gets destroyed!
Every designer of small arms since Maxim and Browning have been influenced by, or simply copied, elements of the design of existing guns. Kalashnikov must have had StG.44s (and the earlier prototypes, by Walther as well as Haenel, which were captured in 1942) to study and he was probably influenced by their general appearance. But the operating mechanisms are completely different, so while the Russians were inspired by the German assault rifles, it's wrong to regard the AK as a copy of anything.
Indeed. The AK-46 probably has more in common with the 44 than does the AK-47. Link: http://world.guns.ru/assault/rus/ak-akm-e.html
The 44 apparently uses a "tilting block" arrangement to lock the breach closed. In contrast, the AKs use an entirely distinct rotating bolt for locking - which is more akin to the M1 Garand than the Stg. 44.
The sort of caliber, capacity, size/weight, and the use of metal stampings for many parts, can be attributed to the Stg. 44 however.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Don't forget that the original AK used a milled receiver - the AKM with a stamped receiver didn't emerge until 1959.
The very first AK-47 had also a stamped receiver. But there were some issues with durability, so they quickly went back to milled receivers. The AK-47 was designed as a wartime gun suited for mass production. Milling a receiver is way too time consuming and wasteful in raw materials. The AK-47 was always meant to have a stamped receiver.
Infact, these reproductions come from Germany.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyD9hrqK84
No chance of importing the Syrian rifles into the US. The 1968 Gun Control Act prevents any import of these full-auto guns (no sporting purpose). Even if they were converted into semi-auto prior to import, the 1989 Semi-Automatic Rifle Import Ban would prevent it anyway.
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V40
Well-Known Member
This is why a new company of sorts are making the semi-auto versions. There are many versions of the AK-47 including the ones built on 2mm recievers. I agree that the internal workings are different too. During Vietnam the Chinese made the worst version of the AK which was missing quality control.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
True - but a part of the appeal of the StG.44 is its relative rarity. If the things are still common world-wide, I suspect that would reduce the market for reproductions (especailly expensive ones).
I agree. The relative rarety is part of the fascination for the STG 44, especially in the US. Though a certain weapon might be common worldwide, the availability and demand on the domestic market are dictating the price (particular true for the US, where certain laws have banned all imports / manufacture of transferable military firearms). If you were living in the US, there are not many options:
- spending 12K+ for a transferable full-auto Sturmgewehr (the real deal)
- spending 5K for the firing PTR-44 semi-auto replica (only a few were imported)
- resort to a non-firing replica or deactivated gun
So if you are want to enjoy shooting a Sturmgewehr, prepare for a substantial investment. I don't know the legislation on importing deactivated guns into the US. In the worst case they require to cut the receiver in half or stuff like this. So even a deactivated historical STG-44 might be hard to come by.
Tony, as with all other fields of technology German experts from several companies were brought to Russia after 1945 and kept on working together with Mr. kalashnikov.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
It's generally believed that Hugo Schmeisser was involved, but my information says otherwise. This is from Max Popenker:
and some further information from Remov of Tanknet:
Either way, it seems that Kalashnikov and his team, while borrowing ideas from all over the place, had no direct assistance from German technicians.
When it came to automatic weapon design, the Soviets had little to learn from anyone. They actually had a college specialising in the design of automatic weapons and from the 1930s onwards produced some of the most impressive guns anywhere. In aircraft guns, for instance, their equivalent of the .30 Browning (c.1,200 rpm) was the ShKAS (1,800 rpm) and they also had a “super-ShKAS” in service (2,700 rpm – from a single-barrel gas-operated gun). Their equivalent of the aircraft .50 BMG (800 rpm) was the 12.7mm UB which was lighter and fired at 1,050 rpm. And so on…