British Ordnance Collectors Network
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
5cm FLaK conundrum?
- Thread starter waffenamt
- Start date
Waff, I don't think its a cored projectile but perhaps a tipped one, hopefully one of the experts out there can help out.
I got one of those at Beltring too. The tip is solid and when it unscrews the bit underneath is solid too!
I'm wondering if they were experimenting with different tips?
Dave.
Attachments
I note a little difference with one of the drivebands on one of the others if you look closely.Hey Waff,Deffo not for 5 cm FlaK 41. The only known AP projectile for that round is the 5 cm PzGr 42 (APCBCHE-T) (see pic, very unfortunately not in my collection :tinysmile_cry_t4: ) which in it's own right is as rare as hens teeth!Besides (with exeption of the 5 cm PzGr 40/1) all 5 cm hartkern projectiles were used with specially modified cases (longer case necks to fit all of the projectiles body below the "bourrelet" inside the neck).greetz,Menno.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Some sub-cal ammo from my collection including a couple of German 5cm: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SubcalAmmo.jpg
Chris 42 RQ
Well-Known Member
Very nice items Waff, dont see many of those cases or projectiles in good condition, so can I assume they are rather rare ?
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
They are indeed rare - I've only ever seen one for sale, here:
Chris,
you certainly can as far as cases go.
In a decade of collecting I only once found a 5 cm FlaK 41 case (worthy of buying) myself (sold it off later though, cause I only collect AP and it was crimped for an HE shell).
I've seen very few on collectors meetings (usually as show off's, thus not for sale :tinysmile_angry2_t: ), and only about 8 pics of 5 cm FlaK cases owned by different people.
With the projectiles it's a different story, about two years ago the market started to be "swamped" with "boattailed" (thus not PaK or Kw.K) 5 cm projectiles (mainly HE, HE-T, Minen(-T ?) and their b "cousins"). There is some discussion however iff these projectiles are either for 5 cm FlaK 41 or for 5 cm BK or both.
(the general view, I believe, is that the HE was used in both and the "Minen" only in the BK).
gr,
Menno.
you certainly can as far as cases go.
In a decade of collecting I only once found a 5 cm FlaK 41 case (worthy of buying) myself (sold it off later though, cause I only collect AP and it was crimped for an HE shell).
I've seen very few on collectors meetings (usually as show off's, thus not for sale :tinysmile_angry2_t: ), and only about 8 pics of 5 cm FlaK cases owned by different people.
With the projectiles it's a different story, about two years ago the market started to be "swamped" with "boattailed" (thus not PaK or Kw.K) 5 cm projectiles (mainly HE, HE-T, Minen(-T ?) and their b "cousins"). There is some discussion however iff these projectiles are either for 5 cm FlaK 41 or for 5 cm BK or both.
(the general view, I believe, is that the HE was used in both and the "Minen" only in the BK).
gr,
Menno.
Hey Tony,
what would your definition of "sub-cal" be?
Most iff not all German Hartkern projectiles travelled towards their targets in one piece and at the diameter of the weapon's bore, core and body only coming apart after impact.
Personally I'd describe "sub-cal" as a projectile that is of lesser calibre than the diameter of the weapons bore when in flight/upon impact.
regards,
Menno.
what would your definition of "sub-cal" be?
Most iff not all German Hartkern projectiles travelled towards their targets in one piece and at the diameter of the weapon's bore, core and body only coming apart after impact.
Personally I'd describe "sub-cal" as a projectile that is of lesser calibre than the diameter of the weapons bore when in flight/upon impact.
regards,
Menno.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
In my experience the term "sub-calibre" is used flexibly in English to include both a sub-calibre projectile (APDS, APFSDS) and a sub-calibre penetrator (APCR), with the squeezebore (APCNR or SV) falling somewhere in between!
waffenamt
Well-Known Member
Well the filled one i have will be repainted then up for sale depending on finances!
The steel one is a keeper but whicjh proj to put in?
cheers
waff
Hello,
The picture was mailed to me by a German collector. This person did tell me the piece in the picture is not in his own collection. I admit to neglecting to verify wheter or not the picture could be published, it just seemed natural to me to post the picture for educational purposes.
I appologize.
@ moderator,
I seem unable to edit the post containing the picture, would you please be so kind as to remove the picture ?
Regards,
Menno.
The picture was mailed to me by a German collector. This person did tell me the piece in the picture is not in his own collection. I admit to neglecting to verify wheter or not the picture could be published, it just seemed natural to me to post the picture for educational purposes.
I appologize.
@ moderator,
I seem unable to edit the post containing the picture, would you please be so kind as to remove the picture ?
Regards,
Menno.