6 Pr Nordenfelt or Hotchkiss shell?

[Darkman]

I recently acquired this early 57mm 6 Pr shell and I’m trying to work out if it’s a Nordenfelt or Hotchkiss. It’s the longer of the 2 shells shown on the right, alongside what I believe to be a similar Hotchkiss of the same era. The shell is 240mm long and the crimp groove is a smidge under 1 inch (24.5mm) below the driveband. The driveband has 3 undercut grooves, rather than the usual Hotchkiss style 2. It’s a “truncated” flat-tip shell which I believe signifies a Common pointed cast-iron shell. It’s stamped with a C and a subdued W on the base - no other markings. The base fuze hole has 12 TPI and fits a standard Hotchkiss fuze from Mk II (1890) onwards. The Mk I Hotchkiss base fuze from 1886 to May 1890 had 14 TPI. I estimate the shell to be early 1890s but Nordenfelt was bought out by Maxim in 1888. Is it a Nordenfelt or Maxim-Nordenfelt shell?
Thanks, Graeme

 

[Gspragge]

It is quite similar to some American commercial or early versions up to about 1900 of the Hotchkiss.
So I lean more to the Hotchkiss family. If it were Maxim Nordenfelt there would be a MN cypher
stamped on it. If American export the case could be either Winchester or UMC.
If it's another country of origin, then some one else might have a better idea.
Not Russian made or Hotkiss Co or French Navy.

 

[Darkman]

Thanks Gordon,

I do note the W stamped on the base, but being found in Australia, I'm a bit skeptical that it would be a US shell - almost everything imported here would be of British origin. But US ships did visit here and anything is possible. Graeme

 

[frizzen]

Your mystery projectile is a Belgian manufactured common shell for the Nordenfelt 57 x 224 gun. My projectile is marked also with the W on the base and an S. Mine is painted red overall (original paint) and has a base fuze marked EP 96. Note the longer distance from the bottom of the rotating band to the crimping groove, and also as you have noted, the difference in the rotating band design. The Belgians purchased many of these guns from Nordenfelt, and produced their own ammunition. I have in my collection a smaller segment shell and canister. Possible you projectile was brought back as a souvenir. The Germans captured these guns and great stores of ammunition at the beginning of War I and although they manufactured their own ammunition too, they did still use up what they had captured. They rebuilt the guns with a recoil system for use as anti tank guns and also used it in their A7V tank. The correct case for your projectile is 224mm long and either marked N, or blank headstamp or EP 96 or 97, or with a German headstamp. A very nice and rare projectile, only the second I have seen in over 40 years collecting.

 

[no3nh4]

Hello,

This projectile was located in Spain. It also has a "M" or "W" marked inside a circle. The fuze is placed in the warhead, and this fuze is designed and built by the Belgian Pyrotecnics School ("EP" marking "Ecole de Pyrotechnie").

 

[Darkman]

Your mystery projectile is a Belgian manufactured common shell for the Nordenfelt 57 x 224 gun. My projectile is marked also with the W on the base and an S. Mine is painted red overall (original paint) and has a base fuze marked EP 96. Note the longer distance from the bottom of the rotating band to the crimping groove, and also as you have noted, the difference in the rotating band design. The Belgians purchased many of these guns from Nordenfelt, and produced their own ammunition. I have in my collection a smaller segment shell and canister. Possible you projectile was brought back as a souvenir. The Germans captured these guns and great stores of ammunition at the beginning of War I and although they manufactured their own ammunition too, they did still use up what they had captured. They rebuilt the guns with a recoil system for use as anti tank guns and also used it in their A7V tank. The correct case for your projectile is 224mm long and either marked N, or blank headstamp or EP 96 or 97, or with a German headstamp. A very nice and rare projectile, only the second I have seen in over 40 years collecting.

Thanks Frizzen!

My shell has traces of red paint on it. And I've seen those shorter 57 x 224mm cases stamped EP before.
Great to get a positive ID.

Cheers, Graeme

 

[Gspragge]

I wasn't even on the same planet ~ :tinysmile_hmm_t: