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7.62x39mm

VettelS

VettelS

Member
I have a 7.62x39mm cartridge, identical to this one. Headstamp: 04 67.

The person I bought it from says that it was made by Wolf, Russia. However, this page suggests that a Wolf cartridge should bear the WOLF headstamp. Also, this page seems to suggest that 04 may mean that the cartridge is East German.

I understand that 04 may not be manufacturer code- maybe a lot number- however, this still does not explain why what I believe to be a Wolf cartridge, does not bear the WOLF headstamp.

Can anyone help me to identify the origin of the cartridge? Thanks.
 
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I would think that it is an East German manufacture cartridge. 04 - manufacturer, 67 would be the year. I dont believe that Wolf would have been manufacturing ammunition under that name in 1967.

Wolf buys whole sale lots of ammo from Tula, Barnaul, Ulyanovsk and a few other ammo plants and rebrands it as "Wolf" for their American market.
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Thanks MissingSomething.

I've worked out why I couldn't figure it out- I had my notes mixed up. I feel stupid now :S It turns out that this is not in fact Wolf, but East German just like you said. But thanks for your help anyway.

Also, can you point me to where you quoted that from please?
 
As was stated above, Wolf doesn't really make anything. They order ammo to be packaged for them for resale.
 
VettelS - As others have confirmed, this is an East German headstamp. However, irrespective of whether Wolf makes ammo or not, the most salient point is that you had a dated military round, and commercial producers do not use their trade names on ammo produced for the military. Similarly, commercial ammunition does not have a date in the headstamp (except in very rare occassions)

If you has a round with the "04 67" headstamp, it is obviously military and so one would not expect it to carry a commercial name. Also, it is important to take note of the context; your ammo was dated 1967 at the height of the cold war. There were no exporters of ammo to the west in the old USSR.

By considering points like that it is much easier to reduce the possibilities when trying to identify a round.

Regards
TonyE
 
In the former DDR were two ammunition factories. Spreewerk Lbben, (Code 05) and the Mechanische Werksttte Knigswartha. This last factory used the code 04. It was a state owned plant



They also made Kz 43 rounds (Stg44) 8 x 57 Mauser, 9mm Para, 7,62 Tokarev, 7,65 Browning, 9mm Makarov and at the end .223

Rgds,
Dutch
 

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Just one point of interest to chuck into this thread,commercial Wolf 5.45x39 proof rounds are used to proof military rifles(large yellow tips on the projectiles).
And yes, before I get told off, the military do not carry out the rifle proving but they done by state owned factories,just struck me a bit odd that Russian state factories would rely on a commercial supplier for proof rounds.

Tony
 
They also made Kz 43 rounds (Stg44) 8 x 57 Mauser, 9mm Para, 7,62 Tokarev, 7,65 Browning, 9mm Makarov and at the end .223

Rgds,
Dutch

Hi Dutch,
I also have a 1987 05 made 5.45x39mm drill round in my collection.

Tony
 
Yes Tony, as I wrote before, "05" was the second DDR plant.

Rgds
Dutch
 

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Hi Dutch,
very sorry but it was the calibre of 5.45x39mm being also made in the DDR that I was making a reference to,which you had not wrote,thought it may have been of interest to you.

Tony
 
TonyE said:
There were no exporters of ammo to the west in the old USSR.

Regards
TonyE
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Tony, in fact there were such things but little is known. Besides .22 there were also 6.5x54R marked in French and probably others.
 
For reference I believe USSR factory headstamps are as follows:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 3 = Ulyanovsk
7 = Amursk (Vympel)
17 = Barnaul
60 = Frunze
270 = Voroshilovgrad
539 = Tula (early ones headstamped TCW)
711 = Klimovsk
188 = Novosibirsk

Loads of Tula & Barnaul kicking around

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 
Hi Dan,
you may find this site interesting,is about the 7.62x54R but a lot of the manufactures codes 'overlapped' with the 7.62x39mm,don't take all the info as gospel though as they do state that factory 270 never made 7.62x54R but they did and have the proof of it in my collection.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID.htm


All the best

Tony
 
DanTheMan said:
For reference I believe USSR factory headstamps are as follows:

3 = Ulyanovsk
7 = Amursk (Vympel)
17 = Barnaul
60 = Frunze
270 = Voroshilovgrad
539 = Tula (early ones headstamped TCW)
711 = Klimovsk
188 = Novosibirsk

Loads of Tula & Barnaul kicking around
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Dan, these are very basic and would need plenty of explanations since some codes changed locations in 1941 and also city names got changed during communist times. Some missing too.
Tula's "TCW" is the English abbreviation which exists only since the 1990's on civilian ammunition. What you mean is "TPZ" (transcription from cyrillic), before "TPZ" "Tulskii P Z " was used. Later also the single letter "T" was used (on military ammunition till approx 1945 and partially up to the 1970's on civilian). Civilan ammo today is marked with the factory logo.
Much more to say but that would fill a book.
 
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smle2009 said:
Just one point of interest to chuck into this thread,commercial Wolf 5.45x39 proof rounds are used to proof military rifles(large yellow tips on the projectiles).
,just struck me a bit odd that Russian state factories would rely on a commercial supplier for proof rounds.

Tony
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Tony, the Russian proof house head quarters is located in Klimovsk on the KSPZ territory. They supply all proof cartridges to all Russian gun manufacturers today. They order their components from any supplier on hand which can deliver the required qty. in time. Actually all hpt loads for weapon proof are blue tipped (except for the 9x39 SPP sniper cartridge which has a blue tip but is no proof but a regular load within the military).
I have never seen a commercial stamped yellow tipped (barrel proof). Might the one you refer to be a gun show dummy? Or can it be excluded that someone applied the paint on his own? Do you happen to have an image of that round you cold show to us (hs and side shot)? Would be great!
 
Hi EOD,
unfortunately I sold the 5.45x39 as I don't collect commercial SAA,but here is a photo of the '270' 7.62x57R.

Cheers
Tony

P3030020.jpgP3030021.jpg
 
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