75mm ARES Telescoped APFSDS-T

[HAZORD]

About 20 years ago I picked up these components from a fired telescoped 75mm ARES Gun round. The case is a composite of a steel mouth and Head with a plastic tube in between. I have attached some web addresses of articles that discuss the gun. As I was researching this info to post, I learned that the gun was designed by Eugene Stoner.

These parts came from a scrap yard, and originally the steel had rusted. I sand blasted the steel and painted it black. The white part is the original color of the plastic.

This case is overall 400mm long. The case head is convex and the front of the case is also convex. There is no measureable taper to the case, and the straight section is 384mm long.

There are 2 fired Tungsten darts in the 2nd and 3rd photos, one with remnant fins. This round uses 4 sabots, 3 of which are shown. The darts have very fine external threads that engage grooves in the sabots.

The dart is completely enclosed by the case. The case mouth is a steel tube that extends 5 inches into the case to center the sabot. There is a steel cup inside the head of the case, which centers the fins and dart directly over the primer, and this cup has a radial pattern of holes for the primer gases to ignite the powder. This cup is shown in the next set of photos.




http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/tankita2.html

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1702.0

http://www.aresinc.net/engineering.html

 

[HAZORD]

75mm ARES Telescoped cartridge

Roughly measured, the case is 5-3/16 inches in diameter.

There are two grooves around the case to facilitate the automatic feed system. The rear groove is much deeper (4-11/16 inches in diameter) compared to the front groove (5-1/16 inches in diameter). This will guarantee that the round is always pointed forward in the feed system.

An interesting note, is that the darts are very heavy tungsten and they bent instead of shattering. Previous to this, I had always thought that tungsten was brittle and would shatter on impact.

A number of years ago, I saw an unfired round like this for sale on auction, and at that time the assembly was labeled "Confidential". Reading the material in the web posts, there might be some renewed interest in this gun.

John

 

[SG500]

OH WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My wants list just got longer.
That is one rare round, thanks for showing it.............and if by chance it becomes available I could offer it a good home in Wales.
Thanks for showing it John.
Dave.

 

[SG500]

John is the sabot on this plastic or metal?

Dave.

 

[HAZORD]

Dave,

The sabots are metal, lightweight. They kind of ring if you clink them together like they are titanium, but I'm not positive. They could be aluminum.

 

[SG500]

Thanks.
Any idea how it is loaded?
I assume as both ends of the cartridge are convex it is somehow loaded sideways by swinging it into the breech rather than the traditional way?
Dave.

 

[HAZORD]

I heard it was a rapid-fire gun, an autoloader. It has grooves at both front and rear ends like the rim of a cartridge case. Rumor was that they were fed through a track system that engaged the grooves.

 

[EODGUY]

The 75mm round was designed for the ARES XM274 heavy autocannon. It was a candidate for the US Army's Rapid Deployment Force-Light Tank system. That program died, but ARES still kept the gun and ammunition at the ready. It has been a proposal for a couple of other systems, but none have gathered any interest. They developed HE and APFSDS rounds, with WP Smoke and HEAT rounds on the drawing board if anyone was interested in the syste. One of the demonstration rounds for the 75mm cannon that ARES proposed under the RArefaction waVE guN (RAVEN) was the 45mm COMVAT which I show pictures of. It is a scaled down version of the 75mm. As Shakespeare said, Quoth the Raven...nevermore...it died also. My COMVAT round has a steel case made by Honeywell in Minneapolis, MN.

 

[SG500]

The 75mm round was designed for the ARES XM274 heavy autocannon. It was a candidate for the US Army's Rapid Deployment Force-Light Tank system. That program died, but ARES still kept the gun and ammunition at the ready. It has been a proposal for a couple of other systems, but none have gathered any interest. They developed HE and APFSDS rounds, with WP Smoke and HEAT rounds on the drawing board if anyone was interested in the syste. One of the demonstration rounds for the 75mm cannon that ARES proposed under the RArefaction waVE guN (RAVEN) was the 45mm COMVAT which I show pictures of. It is a scaled down version of the 75mm. As ShakespeareView attachment 80701View attachment 80702View attachment 80703 said, Quoth the Raven...nevermore...it died also. My COMVAT round has a steel case made by Honeywell in Minneapolis, MN.

Thanks Bob, that answers a question I was about to post relating to one of my projectiles - very similar although the fin is slightly different.
If anyone has a spare case out there I'd be interested in it.
Would you mind posting a photo from the top looking down onto the case - does it have vents like on the 75mm?
Dave.

 

[SG500]

Some photos of the 75mm I picked up recently.
I've deliberately not shoved it into the case all the way just in case it wouldn't come out.
The vents I refer to are in the second to last photo.
All INERT

Dave.

 

[HAZORD]

Dave,

Congrats on getting your ARES. You seem to have a way of eventually getting the things you are looking for. I suspect a lot of bush beating.

I've always thought that there should be a method of announcing obtaining such things as new firearms or pieces of Ordnance, similar to a birth announcement.

I'm not sure if there are a few of these black ones like yours in collections, or if it is the same round that shows up every now and then. CS had one on one of his orchestrated auctions a number of years ago. The photos always show the black case with CONFIDENTIAL written on the side.

I'm not sure if the rotating band is a repro or not. U.S. bands are typically a kind of see-through white, instead of a solid, and don't have square edges. I'm thinking a real band would allow the projectile to fit entirely in the case.

John

 

[SG500]

Thanks John, yes lots of bush beating, it did come from your side of the pond so it could well be the same one. Patience works well for me, I've been looking for one since you posted photos of yours in 2009 so have managed to get one quite quickly.

I agree about the band, its slightly oversized so doesn't allow the projectile to sit inside the case and yea, square edges don't seem quite right, but, it'll do for now :smile:

Dave.

 

[SG500]

The 75mm round was designed for the ARES XM274 heavy autocannon. It was a candidate for the US Army's Rapid Deployment Force-Light Tank system. That program died, but ARES still kept the gun and ammunition at the ready. It has been a proposal for a couple of other systems, but none have gathered any interest. They developed HE and APFSDS rounds, with WP Smoke and HEAT rounds on the drawing board if anyone was interested in the syste. One of the demonstration rounds for the 75mm cannon that ARES proposed under the RArefaction waVE guN (RAVEN) was the 45mm COMVAT which I show pictures of. It is a scaled down version of the 75mm. As Shakespeare said, Quoth the Raven...nevermore...it died also. My COMVAT round has a steel case made by Honeywell in Minneapolis, MN.

Just a few photos to show the 75mm ARES next to the 45mm COMVAT for comparison purposes.
Both INERT.
Dave.

 

[pzgr40]

#2
"An interesting note, is that the darts are very heavy tungsten and they bent instead of shattering. Previous to this, I had always thought that tungsten was brittle and would shatter on impact."

Pure tungsten is not hard , only very heat resistant and heavy. Tungsten becomes hard and brittle as an ally with f.i carbon, forming Tungsten carbide (WC or W2C). In German this alloy is called Widia -> Wie diamant -> like diamond.
Adding Nickel to the alloy makes a penetrator hard as well as ductile.

Regards, DJH

 

[SG500]

#2
"An interesting note, is that the darts are very heavy tungsten and they bent instead of shattering. Previous to this, I had always thought that tungsten was brittle and would shatter on impact."

Pure tungsten is not hard , only very heat resistant and heavy. Tungsten becomes hard and brittle as an ally with f.i carbon, forming Tungsten carbide (WC or W2C). In German this alloy is called Widia -> Wie diamant -> like diamond.
Adding Nickel to the alloy makes a penetrator hard as well as ductile.

Regards, DJH

Thanks DJH, photo shows the dart for the 45mm.

Dave.

 

[Spaceinvader]

If someone has the time, could they post a picture of one of the 75mm rounds compared to another round? Im interested in the size of the cases/darts.

 

[SG500]

If someone has the time, could they post a picture of one of the 75mm rounds compared to another round? Im interested in the size of the cases/darts.

See post 13 above for the case comparison.
I'll dig them out in a couple of days and photograph the darts.
Dave.

 

[Matt R.]

If someone has the time, could they post a picture of one of the 75mm rounds compared to another round? Im interested in the size of the cases/darts.

Below are some data from a declassified 1996 report :

45mm COMVAT :

a) cartridge size : 2.75-inch x 12.1-inch (Diameter x Length)
b) cartridge volume : 71.0 cubic inch
c) cartridge mass : 3,175 grams
d) propellant mass : 615 grams
e) projectile launch mass : 755 grams (penetrator + sabot)
f) muzzle velocity : 4,430 fps

75mm ARES :

a) cartridge size : 5.2-inch x 19.0-inch (Diameter x Length)
b) cartridge volume : 403.5 cubic inch
c) cartridge mass : 12,655 grams
d) propellant mass : 3,488 grams
e) projectile launch mass : 3,052 grams (penetrator + sabot)
f) muzzle velocity : 4,800 fps

Hope this helps.

Kind regards.

Matt.

 

[Matt R.]

See post 13 above for the case comparison.
I'll dig them out in a couple of days and photograph the darts.
Dave.

Hello Dave,

I would also be very interested in the dimensions of the darts (penetrator), especially for the 75mm ARES.

The dimensions I am interested in are :

a) the overall length of the penetrator (tip & tracer included)
b) the diameter of the penetrator
c) the length of the tip
d) the length of the tracer (if any)

Thanks a lot in advance.

Kind regards.

Matt.

 

[Matt R.]

The 75mm round was designed for the ARES XM274 heavy autocannon. It was a candidate for the US Army's Rapid Deployment Force-Light Tank system. That program died, but ARES still kept the gun and ammunition at the ready. It has been a proposal for a couple of other systems, but none have gathered any interest. They developed HE and APFSDS rounds, with WP Smoke and HEAT rounds on the drawing board if anyone was interested in the syste.

One of the factors that killed the 75mm ARES gun was costs :

a) the R&D cost of the 75mm ARES gun was approximately 11 times greater than the R&D cost of the low-recoil 105mm M35 gun.

b) the cost to produce the 75mm case-telescoped APFSDS was approximately 3 times greater than the cost of conventional 105mm APFSDS rounds.

This led to the termination of full-scale development in 1988.