Blank Stielhandgranate WW1 handle

[jeeeensy]

This came it today,,, originally i was going to buy a set of these but i lost the web-site, typical, but this one came up and could not resist it.

I do have some reservations about the authenticity of these handles, only because of the makers stamp. can any one confirm please. they look to precise on the stamping and unsure with the S. and is not turned in beech. but saying that it may not have been obligitory to use beech.
I have several late WW1 grens and most are lightly marked. Regards Nick

 

[Millsman]

This looks like a poor fake I'm afraid. On the real thing the stamping is quite fine and in some cases hard to see after 60 years let alone 90. German stick grenades are not my speciality but I've seen and handled a few over the years.

John

 

[Gustaf]

Hey Nick,
I tend to agree with John, I have not seen any original handles that have been marked with a hot die, this one appears to have had the marking burned into the wood, and every example I have seen is pressure stamped, but I too have not seen a large number of examples.
Gus

 

[18pounder]

This looks like a poor fake I'm afraid. On the real thing the stamping is quite fine and in some cases hard to see after 60 years let alone 90. German stick grenades are not my speciality but I've seen and handled a few over the years.

John

On the surface it looks a bit iffy Millsman and i'm no expert (no offence intended),but saying that, it does look like a factory blank.
Ive seen these before.
Nice stick
Maybe someone will know the actual production methods to explain this one.
Has anyone got any more images of blanks to compare against?
i would expect some more darkening of wood from handling and age though.
Interesting none the less.

 

[dano1917]

I would have to halfheartedly disagree. This is an original blank WW1 unfinished stick (at least that is the opinion which I have been led to believe to be true) . I was told where they came from. Not dated because the date was not stamped until grenade assembled. I shipped one over to one of you chaps in England. There was a cache of these found in France in the mid 80's in storage (as the STORY goes) and the condition is exceptional. Choose to believe it or not but it MAY be true. Based on "oral history" but from a very reliable source. I used to be able to get them over here until the supply dried up...Dano

 

[Grenademan2005]

The marks seems to be done with a surgeon laser. They are too perfect, look other German WWI handles. And you say that you were going to buy a set? Do you mean a lot? Hummm, very suspicious that you can find a seller with a lot of these handles with these markings. Nor in WWII Germans handles were marked so beautiful.

 

[Grenademan2005]

Only the handles, Dano? In this condition after 70 years.... With those megaclear marks, Im sorry, but I dont believe in miracles nowadays.

 

[Grenadier]

+++

And the original AEG stamp here...

 

[jeeeensy]

And the original AEG stamp here...

Hi Dimatar


Thank you, now that's the stamp i am used to looking at, thin lines and with light ink stamp for dating on reverse of handle i expect.

Kind Regards Nick

 

[dano1917]

I guess that I should keep an open mind on this, I am backing down on this one. There are just too many collectors far more knowledgable than myself and all seem to have the same opinion. I usually don't follow the path of the piper, but obviously opinion runs strong on this one so I will just agree with the masses. Humbled Dano

 

[Millsman]

Dano

I think you can see the real thing in post 9. The lettering is too crude on the 'discovered' handles. In the antiques (and militaria) trade you have to look at the object and not listen to the story. I would also have thought that WW1 stocks would have been rapidly used up before or during WW2 or at least adapted for WW2 use. Logic?

The stick in post 1 and in yours the lettering is clearly too heavy to match the original and the burning in does not match any stick grenade handle I've seen. Normally the lettering is quite finely stamped in and is sometimes quite hard to see after all these years, aspecially if the stick has been damp or wet as the impressed mark seem to expand out and disappear a bit.

John

 

[18pounder]

I guess that I should keep an open mind on this, because there is always the possibility that the story I got on these handles so many years ago was total horse s__t. Or maybe more than one "S" font exists. One thing that intrigues me about this hobby is there always seems to be more questions than answers. What would be the end justification to make a stick blank? I was so sure these blanks were original, now leaning toward repro? I'm not just too hard headed and always open to listen to reason. And Paul, If the blank I sent you is repro, I humbly apologize as I was under the opinion it was original.......Dano

maybe it was part of a distraction deal?

What i mean is,it was part of a deal with some other items to help sell the lot.

If you saw these in the correct container,with the correct markings then they might help to sell other stuff too, lets say grenade cans...As a job lot.
If you mix fake and real stuff together and prove the authenticity of the real stuff,then some will believe the fake to be real too.
Its an old con.(not saying this was).

Ive got a feeling someone knocked these out years ago and they are starting to find there way into collections after the main containers were split up.
If i had loads of em,i would sell them in singles.
I'm still split with this one.

Who know weather a factory made them as a sample,or someone has knocked em up?
I thought completed blanks would have been cut and drilled ready for the other parts.

Any more images of blanks or grenade handle stamps to compare,with respect i dont think it can be proven if shown with just one for comparison

 

[dano1917]

Dano

I think you can see the real thing in post 9. The lettering is too crude on the 'discovered' handles. In the antiques (and militaria) trade you have to look at the object and not listen to the story. I would also have thought that WW1 stocks would have been rapidly used up before or during WW2 or at least adapted for WW2 use. Logic?

The stick in post 1 and in yours the lettering is clearly too heavy to match the original and the burning in does not match any stick grenade handle I've seen. Normally the lettering is quite finely stamped in and is sometimes quite hard to see after all these years, aspecially if the stick has been damp or wet as the impressed mark seem to expand out and disappear a bit.

John

Point well taken John, I believe stories I guess moreso than most, but if I told you my source you may see why I was led to believe it was true. You know like the age old story of original recordings found in a long lost vault!!! Woe is me...Dano

 

[Dave83]

My Opinion !!!

I woulds say original or not doesent realy matter in that case for restoring projekts like this because to get an original blank stick for an germany ww1 stick grenade are anyway not easy that days its better to use an stick like this as to use an ww2 stick what i a also have seen many times !!

But only my opinion for it !!


WBR David

 

[jeeeensy]

I woulds say original or not doesent realy matter in that case for restoring projekts like this because to get an original blank stick for an germany ww1 stick grenade are anyway not easy that days its better to use an stick like this as to use an ww2 stick what i a also have seen many times !!

But only my opinion for it !!


WBR David

Hi David,, agree,, it is a nice handle fake or not,, ( i don't really mind either way ) a nice clean handle to use as a template for restoration projects. saves me taking apart a minty one i have just to take measurments. all the best Nick

 

[Millsman]

Point well taken John, I believe stories I guess moreso than most, but if I told you my source you may see why I was led to believe it was true. You know like the age old story of original recordings found in a long lost vault!!! Woe is me...Dano

Dano

If you buy a lot of WW1 stuff then there is a chance you will buy a forgery. I know a collector and dealer who has been collecting WW1 helmets for 40 years. This year he bought two really nice helmets at a good price at auction. Both were modern fakes. He was fooled as were others bidding at the auction. I had a German helmet this year I thought was good but I was told it was probably a fake. We all get caught from time to time, if the fake is good enough. Anyone can be fooled, even experienced dealers.

I go to military fairs in France and sometimes I'm appalled by the volume of modern copies I see. Many people buy them believing they are original and then sell them on as originals. It's the way it is now. I do also see genuine dug up new finds. Last year there was a guy in Amiens market selling a whole crate of dug up Grenatenwerfers, all still live and in good condition. I also saw this year a very very rare tanker's Brodie that had come out of the River Ancre. So authentic stuff is being found, you just have to be very careful.

John

 

[Gustaf]

Hey Nick,
Am I to understand that this handle is not drilled through? If so, I had a Grenade that was sold as original, but it had a handle much like this one (I believe it had the burned marking) but it was not drilled through, I knew it had to be fake, as the drilling would have been done during the turning process.
Best
Gsu

 

[jeeeensy]

Fuse assebly

Hi Gus,, it is drilled all the way through handle have checked with a spare fuse,, below,,,

I have a few period fuses for these, and have checked to see is they would fit, in short yes they do,, notice the metal clips on the bottom
of the fuse,, these are there to stop the fuse pulling down the shaft
of the handle when the pull cord was pulled, so installed from the bottom and sealed at top with a bitumen or tar type substance. it is a tight fit but if genuine then yes shrinkage would occur as the moisture leaves the wood, also checked some nice original bottom fitings and these fit snug also, just need to fing the top collar i had for on od these,,,:nerd:

Back later.. nick

 

[paul the grenade]

I have one of these handles. I take some pics tonight when i get home.
Cheers, Paul.

 

[dano1917]

schtinky schtick

Paul, I swear I thought that handle as original when I got it, still not 100% sure it aint PM me for full story I was given...Dano