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Blitz Street

J

jayteepee_1999

Ordnance Approved/premium membership
Ordnance approved
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Channel 4 UK TV 2100 Monday - Blitz Street

This is about WWII and the people who were caught up in the Blitz and the different types of bomb including the damage caused, this is a four episode program and this being the first. No 5131(BD)Sqn - RAF were instrumental in the making of the program as SME on bombs and fuzes. Furthermore, the german fuzes that were shown by Tony Robinson (not in the first program) were and still are the property of Steve Venus (FUZEMAN).

The housing estate that was blown up was made in the UK last August.

Further info I can give by PM.

Please enjoy
 
I watched last nights episode which demonstrated the effects of the SC1000 and the Flamm 250 bombs.

With the SC1000 they used loose bags of explosive in a cardboard box, im guessing this have will have produced a differant effect to a tightly compacked charge in a casing?

What was interesting was just how much effect one 1kg incendary had.

The series has come in from some critisism from the reviewers in some papers (guardian ect...)

Its a shame they are not showing the effect of a 4000lb cookie!

Justin
 
On the whole, so far, a general thumbs up with a few caveats.

My main concern was the actual explosions: airburst SC50/SC500s? (notice they didn't explain what the SC stood for to the lay person?) The bombs were for some reason exploded 6ft off the ground. The real bombs had impact fuzes, often with a split-second delay, which allowed the bomb to bury into the ground before exploding. The ensuing shockwaves through the ground also damaged house foundations. As shown on that excellent Time Team special where they dug up a south London Blitzed street buried under a park, the strength of the foundations made a big difference between the house collapsing/remaining standing. The houses in this programme should have had proper foundations rather than just resting on a concrete base.

The latest '1000kg Herman' replicated more an airburst parachute mine than a Herman. The flammebombe was also, IMHO, a bit beefed up the explosion practically filling the whole street. The oil in these oil bombs, fortunately more often than not failed to ignite, leaving a black sticky mess everywhere. When it did ignite, it was quite esy to extinguish. the falmmebombe in the programme more replicated a 1960s' US Napalm explosion!

Also, explosions are not sudden static detonations. A lot of the explosive damage done to housing in the war was exaggerated by the sheer kinetic force of impact after the bomb hit the ground at x hundred mph after falling from a mile up. This kinetic force was destructive enough on its own even without the actual bomb detonating: see photos of where a UXB has crashed through a house: often the impact was enough to partially demolish it. The explosion/impact factor will become more important the bigger the simulated bombs become, particularly when they detonate a 'V2'.

The 'street' was also far too short. By the time they get to the 'V2' it must be so weakened by the previous explosions it will take a gnat's fart to knock over what's left. In real life this would be the most unlucky street of the war to have this amount/density of impacts in such a small area...

All that said, even after studying the Blitz for getting on 30 years, no amount of black & white bomb damage photos of shattered houses can fully get over the sheer shock/terror of a bomb explosion. The programme gets over a little of the experience. And even if it cannot properly replicate the 'experience' it must bring home to the viewer how bloody lucky we are and how great our grandparents' generation were.

On the whole, the more well-made documentaries about WW2 on the main channels (rather than being relegated/hidden from the majority of viewers on the History/Military History channel) can only be a good thing. Its gotta be better that people get their history of WW2 from documentaries than crass sh*te like Inglorious Basturds.
 
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Having had the misfortune to watch Inglorious B*sterds recently I could not agree more with your last point.

Another criticism would be the poorly researched archive footage used at times which was supposed to illustrate the bombing of the UK, what appeared to be RAF TI's and a HE 111 from the Spanish Civil War are examples of this - which is a shame as it detracts a bit from what I found to be a interesting program.


Justin
 
SC stands for Spreng Cylindrish or Thin walled
SC50 the charge /weight ratio was 44%
The SC 500 48%
The V1 when exploded caused severe damage to the surface, and very little damage to the main services, its far better to have ,damaging blast damage over a wide area , than a buried bomb going off so deep that the damage would be relativly local, with just a few houses being damaged.
Which is why the best blast weapon the Germans had was the parachute mine
 
Good point with the parachute mine Steve.
I was thinking on similar critical lines on some of the info provided on the programme regards to some of the weapons shown.
The biggest blooper of the series so far had to be when he mentioned one raid was the 'most destructive of the war'....I dont think so Tony,thought i....What about those poor sods in Dresden?


best

waff
 
It was a good program but lots of missing info that i think should be at least mentioned in the program ie exploding incendairy bombs IB type, other anti personel bombs like the SD2 and SD1 etc, one going off in a room or attic space would show how destructive they could be. What about other SD bombs as well as the SC bombs. How would the thicker casing on an SD bomb play on the destructive force of the thicker shrapnel flying against a building etc. Would the speed of the falling bomb have any effect on blast rather that set off at the static height tested in the program. How would a house stand, not already damaged against a Herman etc compaired to a house structualy damaged already. Quite a few questions that the program could have answered.
 
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waffenamt said:
The biggest blooper of the series so far had to be when he mentioned one raid was the 'most destructive of the war'....I dont think so Tony,thought i....What about those poor sods in Dresden?
Click to expand...

I think Tony was referring to the worst raid of the war in the UK.

Also its worth noting that Dresden wasn't the most 'destructive' raid of the war in Europe.
 
BMG50 said:
It was a good program but lots of missing info that i think should be at least mentioned in the program ie exploding incendairy bombs IB type, other anti personel bombs like the SD2 and SD1 etc, one going off in a room or attic space would show how destructive they could be. What about other SD bombs as well as the SC bombs. How would the thicker casing on an SD bomb play on the destructive force of the thicker shrapnel flying against a building etc. Would the speed of the falling bomb have any effect on blast rather that set off at the static height tested in the program. How would a house stand, not already damaged against a Herman etc compaired to a house structualy damaged already. Quite a few questions that the program could have answered.
Click to expand...

Come on guys, 'Blitz Street' is a general interest programme, those in the know will always be able to find fault but its not really meant for 'experts'.

It should act as a primer for those who want to learn more.

Also I think the most important part is the eyewitness testimonies, really moving stuff.
 
Yeah,looking back then Q i suppose it could be classed as general interest.
As far the Dresden statement,i stand by that. I just fin reading a book that mentioned there were more casualties at Dresden than Hiroshima. I will save that for another thread methinks....
Fuzeman!,what episode do your fuzes feature in?

cheers

waff
 
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waffenamt said:
As far the Dresden statement,i stand by that. I just fin reading a book that mentioned there were more casualties at Dresden than Hiroshima. I wil save that for another thread methinks....
Click to expand...

The casualty figure your probably referring to of 250,000, this is now universally excepted as hugely inflated, in fact the official war time German documents give figures of 20,240 registered dead and 25,000 anticipated.

Where did the 250,000 figure come from? well, it seems some post war historians (Communists/Nazis and David Irving) simply added a zero to the official documents.

The death toll is now considered in the region of 25,000-40,000. A terrible lose of life that doesn't need to be inflated by disreputable historians.
 
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I did mention that i was going to start another thread to keep the Blitz Street thread clean......Well now,your statement says 'universally accepted'...evidence required before i do thanks. Doesnt matter who wrote the book about Dresden,i would like to know who the author of the 'latest' evidence suggesting that there were way fewer casualties?

Now,Can we go back on topic please?

waff
 
waffenamt said:
I did mention that i was going to start another thread to keep the Blitz Street thread clean......Well now,your statement says 'universally accepted'...evidence required before i do thanks. Doesnt matter who wrote the book about Dresden,i would like to know who the author of the 'latest' evidence suggesting that there were way fewer casualties?

Now,Can we go back on topic please?
Click to expand...

No we can't get back on topic, you've ask a question so I'll reply.

The 'latest' evidence comes from the official death figures (which have come to light since the fall of the iron curtain) given in the "order of the day 47" which gives the figures quoted in my earlier post.

If you want to read Frederick Taylor's book Dresden then that gives a good history of the bombing and its aftermath. (also its fully sourced so you can go and cheek his statements/sources).

Of course it matters 'who wrote the book', I'd no more except David Irvings views to be impartial than I'd except that Rose Wests view of what happened at Cromwell street to be correct simply because she said it.

Please by all means delete these post, but also go and check out some modern books on the bombing of Dresden.
 
Quatermass said:
The casualty figure your probably referring to of 250,000, this is now universally excepted as hugely inflated, in fact the official war time German documents give figures of 20,240 registered dead and 25,000 anticipated.

Where did the 250,000 figure come from? well, it seems some post war historians (Communists/Nazis and David Irving) simply added a zero to the official documents.

The death toll is now considered in the region of 25,000-40,000. A terrible lose of life that doesn't need to be inflated by disreputable historians.
Click to expand...

Quite agree.

The programme was clearly only referring to the Blitz on Britain.

Worldwide, one, if not the greatest losses of civilian life using conventional ordnance, have got to be the low-level US B-29 fire raids on Tokyo in March 1945. The US postwar survey estimated that nearly 88,000 people died in this one raid, 41,000 were injured, and over a million residents lost their homes. The Tokyo Fire Department estimated a higher toll of 97,000 killed.

At the end of the day, all this can get academic/purely a blizzard of statistics: a child deliberately machine-gunned/bombed in a playground by a FW190 in Catford Jan 1943 or a child being killed by a US/British bomb in Germany in January 1943 results in a sad, tragic death.
 
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Please by all means delete these post, but also go and check out some modern books on the bombing of Dresden.[/QUOTE]


No and Yes.:tinysmile_tongue_t:

Now can we go back on topic?

best

waff
 
Hi Paul
Last nights episode saw my Crabtree in use by Tony Robinson, i hope the last one next week will show more of them,
 
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