British-Spanish 37x94R

[MiguelMaxim]

PA is for Placencia de las Armas, now called also Soraluce, in the basque country,where it was a Vickers&Armstrong ammo factory in 1897, sold in 1925. Cases wear VSM and Fabrica de Trubia Artilleria marks. Even here, very scarce pieces and all employed in the 1936-1939 civil war. Spome used as decoration motives with engravings.

 

[Gspragge]

Those single band types are extraordinary ! Are they Spanish made or Vikers, can you show a Spanish headstamp I haver never seen one before !

Placida des Armes started as a Mexim or Maxim/Nordenfelt subsidiary or at least Maxim had a part interest in the it. P.A. marked projectiles were in British service with VSM fuzes and no doubt exported by Vikers as well.

Shown courtesy of FNG61 (If I have it right) is a 42mm Nordenfelt Common Shell ,(with proper Nordenfelt base fuze) made by P.A. in 1892, the casing bears the Maxim Nordenfelt stamp. This is a powerful round. Shown beside a 1 Pr. for scale

 

[MiguelMaxim]

First four rounds showed in my post. ARTILLERIA-FABRICA DE TRUBIA and the year, with some recharges till the forties!

 

[MiguelMaxim]

Second group with some VSM marks and another Trubia ( a gun foundry in Asturias, the north of Spain) who produced also the 40x95R Arellano. Some recharge marks of 1948! Not sure of original correspondence between cases and shells.

 

[MiguelMaxim]

Third group with variety of markings.

 

[MiguelMaxim]

Fourth group. Sorry for the caos! I hope it will help somebody with the proper identification of spanish-british 37x94R rounds. We have more spanish 37 shells in northamerican collections than here in Spain, due to the nice war our ancestors sustained in Cuba Puerto Rico and the Phillipines and the lost of the spanish provinces(not colonies) there. Not sure of the real correspondece with cases and projectiles. In the last 30`s we had here a big civil war and everybody used any kind of weapons against the other side and the 37`s were in both hands.

 

[EOD]

Quite some interesting head stamps amongst there!

 

[saintlo990]

Thanks- This is a great collection.!! The French 37-85 rounds were shipped to Spain from Poland with orders for the FT-17 tanks. The projectiles were identical to the French with minor changes such as a solid bottom rotating band even before the French changed theirs, and usually with "Pk" stampings. The PEM marked 37 x 94R rounds were originally US contracts to Russia from 1914-1918 and many times have Russian inspection marks. All that I have seen were still loaded with the 1 pounder Mk I U.S Navy type round. They were probably refurbished with new powder by the Russians before being sold to Spain. The round was used in the Russian copy of the Ft -17 (MS-1?) and the 37 mm M15R infantry gun. I have Not seen the PEM and WPS marking together before except on U.S. Navy cases. P.E.M. CO may have been able to contract out to another company to help with the order.

 

[Gspragge]

WOW , I have never seen the SFM case before, but the natural follower to Hotchkiss, the 1922 VSM is a surprize too, and the very rare 1915 case must have been supplied after the war. I wonder if some of the single band projectiles are Vikers too. If a Vikers case could be found like those for 1932 -33 it might clear up a VAD solid shot mystery

Is the JA & Anchor mark on the MKll 1922 VSM case a Spanish Navy mark. I didn't know there was a MKll case either.

The SFM case is stunning, I have seen the SFM advertizement, but always assumed Hotchkiss cases, but not so ----- Are there More ! Yikes.

A Mere 3 would suffice - he said laughing hysterically and having to start the collection all over again ~

 

[MiguelMaxim]

You are rigth in all saintlo990. I saw Poole E.&M.Co. rounds with russian black powder silk bags and also russian inspection marks. The french 37Hotchkiss rounds, refurbished by Poland entered in Spain (Santander harbour) in a ship with the FT-17 tanks. As I know, they were painted in yellow with polisk marks on the round and in the case; I saw one brand new but my EOD friends exploded it! I recostructed one french round in the same colours and marks for the history!

 

[MiguelMaxim]

Some american rounds refurbished by the russians and inspection marks of Tula Patronny Zavod Tula Cartridges Workshop for the Renault FT-17, the mod 16 infantry gun, the M-28 and some other guns.

 

[MiguelMaxim]

More things

The third round not sure of the correspondence with the russian case, but I had three shells with the same strange driving band and an russian cyrilic b in a triangle marked close to the point. Maybe war time reconstruction.

 

[MiguelMaxim]

After deactivating it properly, the EOD technicians kept the propelling charge bag filled with rice, instead of the original black powder, for the history. Great! Here we can see the original bag wit some russian markings (and the cardboard piece) on it in the PE&MCo. american round sent by the russians to help the spanish Republican Army in the 1936-1939 civil war. The base fuze was also cut for the deactivation but still in good conditions.

 

[Gspragge]

There was also one of these found frozen in Lithuania, the fuze is the Driggs Patent fuze and the projectile is also the Driggs pattern.

Driggs projectiles are the first to have what seems to become the American standard rotating band design, his patent was for the knurling of the projectile under the band, the band design seems to appear in 1892 on flat tipped base fuzed iron common shell. The earliest pointed Driggs projectiles I know of are circa 1894 (identical markings as other dated 1894 Drigggs projectiles) and use the separate base bushing/seal which is actually under a Hotchkiss patent which I guess ran out by that date. All the other makers of 37mm 1 Pr projectiles made the one piece body design. Poole seems to have gotten the rights or had some connection to Driggs and used his pattern of projectile and fuze for the Mclean Gun projectiles and MKVlll USN projectiles with a solid base plug. PE&M 1918 subcaliber projectiles are simply lengthened versions of the same projectile.

 

[Der Uhu]

И.З.= Izhorsky Zavod (Factory maritime agencies)


Read here 37 mm. automatic gun Maklena (MsLean-Lewis):http://ww1.milua.org/R37Macleana.htm
Quote: "According to some information, in Russia about 42 guns 4 guns were Finns, and were used in the winter war as anti-tank vehicle. Guns remaining in the USSR, were delivered to the Spanish Army Lived during the civil war in that country. "

Propelling charge bag